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Post by ripetebook on Apr 18, 2015 17:23:04 GMT -6
Raylan's true weakness is Winona!!! That look he has after he said "beats being angry" spoke volumes. That great love defined the potential to rid himself of the demons and even more....be the daddy he turned into. They cast two perfect girls as Willa. The five month old twins were so precious but four plus Willa was priceless. I enjoyed Raylan as a daddy! Did you sense his brief hesitation in Art's office was fear of Florida...more about Winona than Willa?
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 18, 2015 19:12:04 GMT -6
Sure, he was apprehensive. He knew they only had a 50/50 chance of making it work. Love has nothing to do with it.
I think most of us have known people who have very passionate relationships. They love hard, but they fight hard. Maybe Raylan and Winona just didn't want their baby girl growing up around all that fighting. There's someone more important than then now.
Like Yost said, I could even see them getting back together and breaking up again...and again (although maybe they'll try not to, for Willa's sake) maybe someday when the dust settles and Raylan's marshal career is over they'll finally have those two rocking chairs on the front porch.
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Post by siss13 on Apr 18, 2015 19:25:22 GMT -6
I loved the jump too. We all wanted closure for the characters that have become so important to us. I'm willing for some things to be open ended. But we'll always wonder what happened to Tony Soprano, won't we? We got to see Ava in a much better place than she has ever been. We got to see Boyd behind bars where he belonged. As horrible as Boyd was, we loved the character. If he had been killed off it would have been just too much perhaps. Raylan seemed so much calmer and happier. He HAD to return to Harlan and he HAD to face his demons in order to become whole. He still works outside of the law sometimes, as we saw he lied to Boyd and probably to Rachel about Ava. I loved him all the more for protecting her and her little boy. I loved seeing him with Willa. It was bittersweet. We all thought he would go to Florida, marry Winona and live happily ever after. But the surprising outcome of her being married to someone else shows that Raylan can roll with the punches now. He can be a good dad. He and Winona can be civil to one another even though something went down to separate them during that four years. And so we will wonder, and that's fine. Not all questions were answered and the future has not been laid out clearly in some respects. But the jump did bring a lot of closure for me. I found it satisfying and that is all I was asking for. Totally agree. I still cringe at the way the Sopranos ended with no closure and no hope for closure now. I think the point of showing Boyd preaching in prison was to remind the audience of the Boyd we saw in season one, after coming out of prison and claiming to find God. It's not something the writers just pulled out of their asses, it was a part of who Boyd once was. Everything had some kind of tie in to the beginning, which in my opinion worked perfectly for the ending. It's television, we don't have to see Boyd suffering on death row to know that he's paying for his crimes. He's behind bars...for now. That was Raylan's goal when he agreed to stay in Harlan. He did what he said he'd do.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 18, 2015 19:43:55 GMT -6
I must ask...Raylan and Winona didn't do any fighting that was made clear to me! Go back to Gary. Raylan wasn't aware she was unhappy til she left him for Gary! I think their issue was more that she would be unhappy but not tell him or try to fix it and would move on. Think of when things went bad with Gary....she ran to Raylan and bedded him. When he did not move forward... She accepted him as he was and he came home to an empty house! They don't fight...she just leaves!!!!!!! She is just better at running than Ava ever was! He did change...he is a far less driven marshal...and she told him he could have her and be himself....but again...that was not enough so....she found Richard! She has a long history....as does he. He can't see her track shoes as she gets ready to run and he pays for that blind spot!!!! She is on her third marriage!!!!! Just saying? ?
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Post by mondayschild on Apr 18, 2015 21:16:13 GMT -6
" book, I agree. Boyd has lost everything he ever wanted. He will die in prison without knowing that life could really have been wonderful even without power and money. The woman he loved, children... He never gave real life a chance. Remember when he was living at Ava's house and they fell in love? He was going straight then...or maybe that was another of his reincarnations too, but it sure seemed real.It didn't take long for the worm to turn. And he dragged her down with him. Instant death at the end of a gun would have been too good for him. Now he's back to preaching. He will continue to reinvent himself until the day he dies, but he will never again have his freedom. I'm very glad that Raylan didn't shoot him and have to carry that around with him for the rest of HIS life. I'm very glad that it ended this way.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 18, 2015 22:18:15 GMT -6
I think in all honesty some of the thinking behind the leaving the three Harlan kids alive...was to have...incentive for a future movie or limited series. Boyd could escape? Loretta could dig herself in so deep only Raylan can save her! Dixie mafia could return to the now legal pot empire of Harlan county to try a take over. Tim could become the chief and ask Dan grant to loan him Raylan...
Or Tim could be transferred to Miami! Art could retire to Miami and out of boredom go after the cartel....remember they still exist and that can of worms.
Raylan Givens is too cool to just fade away. A year from now when he's antsy and wanting to work at something with depth...timothy just may be willing to revive Raylan. Just thoughts....or hopes...dreams...whatever.
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Post by coco13 on Apr 19, 2015 14:43:55 GMT -6
Hi, first time to post – I’ve really enjoyed reading the board. I didn’t discover Justified until the 4th season had already aired on TV – I bought all 4 seasons on DVD and binge watched! I'll miss Justified for its wonderful characters and dialogue.
After watching the finale and as a fan of Winona, I think that Raylan and Winona’s relationship became more about Raylan than it was ever about Winona. It feels to me that all the big events in their relationship were introduced to create drama and to show how this affected Raylan – from Winona leaving, to the fallout from Nicky Augustine's murder, to Raylan’s reaction to impending fatherhood and then the birth of the baby.
I really enjoyed ‘The Hunt’ and reading Graham Yost’s post-mortem of the episode, but having seen where Raylan and Winona end up in the finale, I don’t understand why they dangled the possibility of Raylan and Winona getting back together if they weren't going to follow through on it. I think I would have preferred if ‘The Hunt’ had just ended with Raylan reinforcing the promise he made in ‘Restitution’ of moving to Miami to be closer to the baby and Winona and for the flash forward in the ‘The Promise’ to show the three of them together in the park, leaving it open ended as to whether they had ever got back together. At this stage of the story, I wish they hadn’t introduced another husband for Winona.
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Post by justifiedceo on Apr 19, 2015 15:13:23 GMT -6
All,
Love the passion.
As to the argument for the time jump - which hopefully agree to disagree - I think the movie argument is cliche. I remember hearing all of this after the Sopranos and Deadwood. And they had a greater amount of viewers than Justified had. Any "movie" suggestion in passing is deflected by wanting to sell more DVDs. If you watched the Paley Center interview ... it was clear that DVD sales (another word for copyright sales through physical media, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix ....) were on the minds of the two producers (TO and GY). They also were pumping the bloopers and extras. That could be a little bit of a money maker as well ... although that tends to get posted for free on YouTube like "wack-a-mole" (Hunter Mosely's words on catching drugs FYI)
I want to return to Boyd and Ava. In my mind I separate their characters from the actors. WG is a rock star. He brought his "A" game all the time. Even when he was doing multiple overlapping roles between Justified and pre-production work on the QT movie. WG's career as a character actor in the movies is now cemented. He is the biggest future winner from Justified. And any emotion I feel is for WG. A very polite, hardworking and nice man.
I thought JC grew tremendously this season. She was asked of more. And she nailed it. Again a very nice person that I want to see do well.
I think TO is at a career crossroads. I have always respected him for being a husband and father first. But now he is 45. Will he be a character actor or a leading man? Will he switch to comedy? TV for family or movies which can lead to being away from home for long periods of time? Can he break the mold of playing uber-strong physical men. I think he has EVERYTHING needed to be the next George Clooney. But he just needs his Michael Clayton role. Something where he is a smart but a physically vulnerable man. I know he did so in the Crazies; but he needs a bigger platform production.
I am pulling for him and all the rest of the cast.
JC
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 19, 2015 20:12:02 GMT -6
I agree he may be at a crossroads! It is his career but to be honest his choices in movies are curious to say the least!!! But his TV character choices are brilliant. Damages brought him Justified!!! And Deadwood was a stroke of luck and talent. To play such a cool character as Raylan is a gift. I truly hope they find a way to create a new story for the character!
Walton is gifted! Together they are magic! Timothy is a sexy leading man and needs to accept that! He needs a new TV character to bring life into! That is how I found him...the ads for Justified...the simple walk to tommy bucks hooked me! So timothy get with it!!!!!
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Post by genesgal on Apr 20, 2015 3:32:19 GMT -6
As TO said a few times, now Justified is over he might have to say yes to some crappy roles. He has a wife and three kids and unless he used his $100,000 an episode wages to pay it off, a hefty mortgage. He was pole axed when Deadwood got cancelled as he'd just bought his house. He would of been scrabbling for work afterwards. I hope he doesn't have to take 'anything' he's far to talented for that. Although any job he takes after Justified is going to be a bit of a shock. As EP he's been used to ( and enjoying) having his opinions and ideas listened to. I get the impression that he loved that aspect of the show. He'll be very lucky to find that kind of creative freedom again . I hope he gets another TV show, I'd rather seem him in many hours of something rather than a two hour film. I appreciate that his workload would likely be over a longer period as most main network shows are 22/24 episodes long not 13 eps like Justified. At least he'd get to sleep in his own bed at night whereas a movie could have him on location in Timbuktu for six months and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be away from his family for long( if at all) Am I the only knew who was a little sad at his appearance at the final screening. As lovely as he looked, Raylan's gone . He hasn't worn his hair that short for years and the three piece suit made him look way older than almost 47. For his more formal look I like the black suit, self striped open neck black shirt, no tie combo. Swoon...
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 20, 2015 4:08:17 GMT -6
I loved his character in This is Where I Leave You. The role was small, but the complete opposite of Raylan, so I get why he did it. It's important to show that you have range. I loved his comic turn on Mindy Kaling's show, too. As TO said a few times, now Justified is over he might have to say yes to some crappy roles. He has a wife and three kids and unless he used his $100,000 an episode wages to pay it off, a hefty mortgage. He was pole axed when Deadwood got cancelled as he'd just bought his house. He would of been scrabbling for work afterwards. I hope he doesn't have to take 'anything' he's far to talented for that. Although any job he takes after Justified is going to be a bit of a shock. As EP he's been used to ( and enjoying) having his opinions and ideas listened to. I get the impression that he loved that aspect of the show. He'll be very lucky to find that kind of creative freedom again . I hope he gets another TV show, I'd rather seem him in many hours of something rather than a two hour film. I appreciate that his workload would likely be over a longer period as most main network shows are 22/24 episodes long not 13 eps like Justified. At least he'd get to sleep in his own bed at night whereas a movie could have him on location in Timbuktu for six months and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be away from his family for long( if at all) Am I the only knew who was a little sad at his appearance at the final screening. As lovely as he looked, Raylan's gone . He hasn't worn his hair that short for years and the three piece suit made him look way older than almost 47. For his more formal look I like the black suit, self striped open neck black shirt, no tie combo. Swoon... He might be able to get some control on a television show, coming in as he does with a good rep from Justified. It would depend on the producer/show runner, I would expect. Many shows here in the US are going to the cable formula of 13 episodes. I think that schedule is a lot more attractive to A-list actors. With a shorter production schedule, they can do other projects as well. I noticed the hair, too. And although I like it a lot better than the long scraggly look he sported a couple of years ago, and he's handsome either way, I always liked getting that glimpse of Raylan whenever I saw him. I'll miss that.
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 20, 2015 4:12:46 GMT -6
I must ask...Raylan and Winona didn't do any fighting that was made clear to me! Go back to Gary. Raylan wasn't aware she was unhappy til she left him for Gary! I think their issue was more that she would be unhappy but not tell him or try to fix it and would move on. Think of when things went bad with Gary....she ran to Raylan and bedded him. When he did not move forward... She accepted him as he was and he came home to an empty house! They don't fight...she just leaves!!!!!!! She is just better at running than Ava ever was! He did change...he is a far less driven marshal...and she told him he could have her and be himself....but again...that was not enough so....she found Richard! She has a long history....as does he. He can't see her track shoes as she gets ready to run and he pays for that blind spot!!!! She is on her third marriage!!!!! Just saying? ? Watch The Life Inside, I of the Storm, or Debts and Accounts. They fight. More like bicker, but I'd imagine that living together with a baby, then a toddler/two-year-old, that bickering could easily become all out fighting. From the way they are with each other in that short scene, I think this split was probably mutual. Heartbreaking for them both, but necessary. And I have a friend who's on her third marriage. She's a perfectly lovely person (who makes bad choices in men). It happens.
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Post by siss13 on Apr 20, 2015 6:51:15 GMT -6
I loved his character in This is Where I Leave You. The role was small, but the complete opposite of Raylan, so I get why he did it. It's important to show that you have range. I loved his comic turn on Mindy Kaling's show, too. As TO said a few times, now Justified is over he might have to say yes to some crappy roles. He has a wife and three kids and unless he used his $100,000 an episode wages to pay it off, a hefty mortgage. He was pole axed when Deadwood got cancelled as he'd just bought his house. He would of been scrabbling for work afterwards. I hope he doesn't have to take 'anything' he's far to talented for that. Although any job he takes after Justified is going to be a bit of a shock. As EP he's been used to ( and enjoying) having his opinions and ideas listened to. I get the impression that he loved that aspect of the show. He'll be very lucky to find that kind of creative freedom again . I hope he gets another TV show, I'd rather seem him in many hours of something rather than a two hour film. I appreciate that his workload would likely be over a longer period as most main network shows are 22/24 episodes long not 13 eps like Justified. At least he'd get to sleep in his own bed at night whereas a movie could have him on location in Timbuktu for six months and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be away from his family for long( if at all) Am I the only knew who was a little sad at his appearance at the final screening. As lovely as he looked, Raylan's gone . He hasn't worn his hair that short for years and the three piece suit made him look way older than almost 47. For his more formal look I like the black suit, self striped open neck black shirt, no tie combo. Swoon... He might be able to get some control on a television show, coming in as he does with a good rep from Justified. It would depend on the producer/show runner, I would expect. Many shows here in the US are going to the cable formula of 13 episodes. I think that schedule is a lot more attractive to A-list actors. With a shorter production schedule, they can do other projects as well. I noticed the hair, too. And although I like it a lot better than the long scraggly look he sported a couple of years ago, and he's handsome either way, I always liked getting that glimpse of Raylan whenever I saw him. I'll miss that. I think TO will have a better advantage if he stays in television. Right now, when I think of lead actor in the 46 to 50-something age range, they will usually be the same handful of actors in every movie, especially blockbusters. I think Timothy would have a better chance at another major lead role in cable television. I'd rather see him as a television lead, than see him in a smaller supporting role on the big screen every year or so. But I know for now, he will have to get back in the Hollywood grind until the next gig comes his way. I always wonder how an actor feels once they come out of a successful run on their own show, and then have to go back to auditioning and reading with other popular actors to get a role. I guess that's all part of the Hollywood game.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 20, 2015 10:46:41 GMT -6
Justified gave him the lead and excellent reviews. Plus his range and talent showed! That could help get him a new role. Walton is in the same boat...better working a character...Shane followed by Boyd! Now he has an HBO series! And the haircut...he played CIA so that may be why his hair was shorter. My bet...as time passes it will be longer. And when deadwood died...he took the Bruce Willis die hard role to pay that mortgage. Oh and I guess when fighting I think yelling and walking out! Bickering is not something I thought of...yet she did call him a jerk in the jump scene! All in good fun?
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 20, 2015 13:20:02 GMT -6
No one has mentioned this and it is small...silly but every time I watch the finale (yes to such excess)... With the cop that arrests Raylan...he tells him to shut up or he will put our hero in the trunk! That made me smile and Raylan sure got the irony!!!!
FXNOW is streaming all of season six if you have cable for 29 days and for free. I can get it on my tablet.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 20, 2015 13:24:02 GMT -6
Oh on the video from the finale you need to hear Nick Searcy...he says such nice things about Timothy! Really nice. And to those who are realizing...yes we have said goodbye to Raylan and I agree with the sad feeling! Timothy made Raylan the most memorable character!
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Post by mare27 on Apr 20, 2015 19:27:34 GMT -6
I loved his character in This is Where I Leave You. The role was small, but the complete opposite of Raylan, so I get why he did it. It's important to show that you have range. I loved his comic turn on Mindy Kaling's show, too. As TO said a few times, now Justified is over he might have to say yes to some crappy roles. He has a wife and three kids and unless he used his $100,000 an episode wages to pay it off, a hefty mortgage. He was pole axed when Deadwood got cancelled as he'd just bought his house. He would of been scrabbling for work afterwards. I hope he doesn't have to take 'anything' he's far to talented for that. Although any job he takes after Justified is going to be a bit of a shock. As EP he's been used to ( and enjoying) having his opinions and ideas listened to. I get the impression that he loved that aspect of the show. He'll be very lucky to find that kind of creative freedom again . I hope he gets another TV show, I'd rather seem him in many hours of something rather than a two hour film. I appreciate that his workload would likely be over a longer period as most main network shows are 22/24 episodes long not 13 eps like Justified. At least he'd get to sleep in his own bed at night whereas a movie could have him on location in Timbuktu for six months and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to be away from his family for long( if at all) Am I the only knew who was a little sad at his appearance at the final screening. As lovely as he looked, Raylan's gone . He hasn't worn his hair that short for years and the three piece suit made him look way older than almost 47. For his more formal look I like the black suit, self striped open neck black shirt, no tie combo. Swoon... He might be able to get some control on a television show, coming in as he does with a good rep from Justified. It would depend on the producer/show runner, I would expect. Many shows here in the US are going to the cable formula of 13 episodes. I think that schedule is a lot more attractive to A-list actors. With a shorter production schedule, they can do other projects as well. I noticed the hair, too. And although I like it a lot better than the long scraggly look he sported a couple of years ago, and he's handsome either way, I always liked getting that glimpse of Raylan whenever I saw him. I'll miss that. I remember TO talking in an interview about the abrupt ending to Deadwood that caught many by surprise. He had just negotiated a raise, as had Ian McShane, and bought a house. The question to him was what did you do? He said ""I shaved my head and went to Bulgaria (to make HITMAN.)" I think the Bruce Willis Die Hard movie came after that. ALso, loved the FX video...hope a lot of people get to see it. Wish I knew how to put it on YOUTUBE for our overseas members!
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 21, 2015 3:47:32 GMT -6
Justified gave him the lead and excellent reviews. Plus his range and talent showed! That could help get him a new role. Walton is in the same boat...better working a character...Shane followed by Boyd! Now he has an HBO series! And the haircut...he played CIA so that may be why his hair was shorter. My bet...as time passes it will be longer. And when deadwood died...he took the Bruce Willis die hard role to pay that mortgage. Oh and I guess when fighting I think yelling and walking out! Bickering is not something I thought of...yet she did call him a jerk in the jump scene! All in good fun? I think so, since after that she smiles and he gives her the rest of Willa's ice cream. (Yeah, I've watched that scene a few times.)
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Post by motorcitymade on Apr 21, 2015 6:01:10 GMT -6
ripetebook you summed it up very well! I recuse myself on the Raylan and Winona ever being apart in their hearts as I was pulling for them, as you know. Hahaha.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 21, 2015 11:32:52 GMT -6
When she teases how Willa has him wrapped around her finger....I thought..."really Winona like you don't have him so totally wrapped". And worse she so knows he adores her. From his helping Gary to helping her return the stolen cash to love you but I am so gone!!!! And I love how with just that face he conveys Raylan's love forever for winona.
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Post by genesgal on Apr 22, 2015 2:08:34 GMT -6
The way he looks at her as she walks away... How could you not stay with that man!
Oh and how is "punk" short for pumpkin.. Richard is an idiot.. Punk is a derogatory word...I'm so with Raylan on that one!
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Post by mondayschild on Apr 22, 2015 7:01:52 GMT -6
genesgal, in some parts of the good old USA, "punkin" is the short way of saying "pumpkin." But I agree that it sounds odd to call a child "punk." We wouldn't think it strange if someone said to a child, "You're my little "punkin." But to shorten it to "punk?" It does sound weird,and yes, derogatory. I think of the term as one describing a juvenile delinquent. Hardly dear little Willa.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 22, 2015 10:25:18 GMT -6
Read that "the promise" is the one Raylan made to Ava that it would be fine! And his keeping that promise speaks volumes about the man! Example yes of breaking marshal rules for the better good. And yeah...punkin works but punk does not and Raylan is her daddy and has every right to not like it...shove off Richard!!!
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 29, 2015 20:04:42 GMT -6
When Raylan is leaving the office for the last time...he needs the bag...did he have that clock that was shaped like a gun? Timothy gave a guided tour and talked about that clock...I know obsessed with every little detail...I need a life!!!!!
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Post by mare27 on Apr 29, 2015 20:46:28 GMT -6
When Raylan is leaving the office for the last time...he needs the bag...did he have that clock that was shaped like a gun? Timothy gave a guided tour and talked about that clock...I know obsessed with every little detail...I need a life!!!!! I guess I need a life too...cause I wondered the same thing. I think he was holding the "gun clock"
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