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Post by ripetebook on May 23, 2015 15:10:54 GMT -6
Why do you say he isn't the marrying type....she was his WIFE! He divorced her so she could marry Gary. He isn't the cheating type! Once Gary knew they were together he wanted the open and honest relationship...she wanted to keep it secret. She was the one to pick fights....he did say they could fight or talk...either was hard but he was willing! Yeah we both know I will defend the flawed marshal...
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Post by wkw99 on May 23, 2015 15:56:40 GMT -6
Why do you say he isn't the marrying type....she was his WIFE! He divorced her so she could marry Gary. He isn't the cheating type! Once Gary knew they were together he wanted the open and honest relationship...she wanted to keep it secret. She was the one to pick fights....he did say they could fight or talk...either was hard but he was willing! Yeah we both know I will defend the flawed marshal... I said "aside from her". He hasn't married anyone else, either in the six years they were apart before he came back to KY or in the time since she married Richard. He's a serial monogamist, but the only woman he's ever married is Winona.
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Post by mondayschild on May 23, 2015 19:11:32 GMT -6
siss, I love the Paris idea!
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Post by mare27 on May 25, 2015 21:04:05 GMT -6
OK...now it's Friday afternoon and I can weigh in... Here's the thing. We never get to see things from Winona's perspective, or see her apart from Raylan. we never get to hear her tell a friend about all the lonely nights waiting for him, or waiting up worrying where he was or if he was coming home. We don't get to hear her version of things. We never really know her. What we do know, comes in bits and pieces and often doesn't add up to much of a whole. So, since we see a lot of Raylan and the show is basically from his perspective, it's easy to blame her for their problems. I'm not going to argue the whole are-they-or-aren't-they-soulmates, as far as I'm concerned, Yost and TO settled that long ago. But here's what I think about the events in The Hunt, and what probably happened in those four years. Winona came back to KY to see what was keeping Raylan from joining them in Miami. The doctor was an excuse, a way to save face if he said he wasn't coming after all. She could've seen a much better specialist in Miami. You might say she should know he was coming eventually, but how? How have any of his actions, any of his promises, panned out for her? They aren't at Glynco, they never bought a house...he paid lip service to those things, but he never followed through. He's left her alone with a newborn for six months without so much as a visit...I would say she had good reason to be insecure and not a little pissed. But...she recognizes her role in their problems and comes to him not with an ultimatum, but offering him basically all he could want. She's sleep-deprived, emotional, and probably more than a little horny... So they reunite and he joins her in Florida once Boyd is put away. Then what happens? I read something not long ago in my morning devotionals that said all any of us really wants is to be chosen by someone...to know that in any given situation, they will choose to put us, or their relationship with us, first. It hit home with me, and I think that's what Winona is looking for, not 'the perfect man'. She just wants Raylan to choose her...to put her and Willa first. And his track record with that is not good. Yes, he took care of Nicky Augustine, but she really doesn't know too much about how that went down. And again, he let her sit in Florida, even came to Miami, and never visited his baby girl. I would imagine that what happened as they settled in is that they both went back to being who they are. He worked too much, came home too late, and basically put his job ahead of Winona and Willa and as much as she loves him she just couldn't put up with it the way she thought she could. So, they split...and she met Richard. That's the part that seems unrealistic to me. I'm not sure she'd get married again so quickly, considering what happened with Gary. I could see her living with someone easier than being married again. But, I think like someone else said, that was the writers not wanting to give Raylan a completely happy ending. I agree with you completely. I think , whatever happened when they first got together when Raylan got to Miami, eventually her frustration over his actions (or non actions) during the baby's first six months had to bubble up and explode. Come on...who would put up with that?
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Post by mare27 on May 25, 2015 21:25:26 GMT -6
coco, I think you are probably correct that the writers decided not to give us a "hearts and flowers" or a "happily ever after" finale. A lot of loose ends were tied up and the criminals were dispatched...some eternally! I was sure we were going to see Raylan and Winona and Willa ensconced in a little love nest in Florida. But they left us wondering what the heck happened. That's the best kind of ending really. It leaves us wanting more. I don't know if anyone here saw the Mad Men ending, but it left me wondering about so much. That way the characters tend to live on in our minds. As to Justified, I'd love to know how Ava's little boy grows up. I want to know more about Willa...such a dear little girl. I want another shot at watching Boyd preach. And I want to know about Loretta. We invested so much in that character. I for one, hate that she is a criminal. She's a very bright girl and she has a ton of money. She can be anything she wants to be. She could do a lot of good. I hope that episode in the shed finally scared her straight. I was heartened to see that she saved Raylan's life, so she's not as hard as she pretends to be. When she faced off against Markham at the pizza place, she talked about doing good things for the people of Harlan with the weed business. Did she mean that at all? And if weed doesn't become legal in Kentucky will she grow it anyway and live the life of a criminal? See what I mean? So much to wonder about. Right, lots to wonder about... I think the writers did a wonderful job bring Elmore's Kentucky characters to life and adding all kinds of facets to their stories... They were clever and witty and unpredictable. I think maybe their weak spot was the Raylan and Winona relationship and maybe that boils down to Natalie not being committed to the show, accepting other work...what could they do with a character that was so rarely available...? and there must be drama/conflict, or there is no show. and in the book, Winona was not such an attractive character and neither was Ava...the writers of Justified made a lot of improvement for TV. And in the end, it is all fiction, but this combination of source material, show runner, writers, CAST and crew really brought it to life, so much so that we are still discussing these folks as if they are part of real life...I love it. I was/am so obsessed with this show, I will always be a fan. And I love this forum. Also love the recent fan fiction, which captures the characters I love so well... As for Mad Men, I lost interest after two seasons...never got hooked, like I did with Justified...But I watched part of the last season marathon in order to catch up and Did watch the finale. I really like the call between Don and Betty, but I just didn't like these people, any of them, enough to commit my time to their stories. Jon Hamm is no TO, not even close, in my eyes...and I have to admit watching TO is what drew me to Justified. I just watched "The Promise" again tonight...love it more each time I see it. The ending gets me every time.
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Post by coco13 on May 26, 2015 0:07:18 GMT -6
coco, I think you are probably correct that the writers decided not to give us a "hearts and flowers" or a "happily ever after" finale. A lot of loose ends were tied up and the criminals were dispatched...some eternally! I was sure we were going to see Raylan and Winona and Willa ensconced in a little love nest in Florida. But they left us wondering what the heck happened. That's the best kind of ending really. It leaves us wanting more. I don't know if anyone here saw the Mad Men ending, but it left me wondering about so much. That way the characters tend to live on in our minds. As to Justified, I'd love to know how Ava's little boy grows up. I want to know more about Willa...such a dear little girl. I want another shot at watching Boyd preach. And I want to know about Loretta. We invested so much in that character. I for one, hate that she is a criminal. She's a very bright girl and she has a ton of money. She can be anything she wants to be. She could do a lot of good. I hope that episode in the shed finally scared her straight. I was heartened to see that she saved Raylan's life, so she's not as hard as she pretends to be. When she faced off against Markham at the pizza place, she talked about doing good things for the people of Harlan with the weed business. Did she mean that at all? And if weed doesn't become legal in Kentucky will she grow it anyway and live the life of a criminal? See what I mean? So much to wonder about. Right, lots to wonder about... I think the writers did a wonderful job bring Elmore's Kentucky characters to life and adding all kinds of facets to their stories... They were clever and witty and unpredictable. I think maybe their weak spot was the Raylan and Winona relationship and maybe that boils down to Natalie not being committed to the show, accepting other work...what could they do with a character that was so rarely available...? and there must be drama/conflict, or there is no show.
and in the book, Winona was not such an attractive character and neither was Ava...the writers of Justified made a lot of improvement for TV. And in the end, it is all fiction, but this combination of source material, show runner, writers, CAST and crew really brought it to life, so much so that we are still discussing these folks as if they are part of real life...I love it. I was/am so obsessed with this show, I will always be a fan. And I love this forum. Also love the recent fan fiction, which captures the characters I love so well... As for Mad Men, I lost interest after two seasons...never got hooked, like I did with Justified...But I watched part of the last season marathon in order to catch up and Did watch the finale. I really like the call between Don and Betty, but I just didn't like these people, any of them, enough to commit my time to their stories. Jon Hamm is no TO, not even close, in my eyes...and I have to admit watching TO is what drew me to Justified. I just watched "The Promise" again tonight...love it more each time I see it. The ending gets me every time. In the end, I think the direction of R&W's relationship was probably just down to the story the writers wanted to tell rather than NZ's availability. I've read a couple of interviews that Natalie gave re a pilot she did (The Rebels) where she mentions Justified and her availability/Winona. www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/interviews/a27611/natalie-zea-the-rebels/www.zap2it.com/blogs/natalie_zea_of_the_rebels_amazon_pilot_process_is_terrifying_and_wonderful-2014-02
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Post by wkw99 on May 26, 2015 4:12:54 GMT -6
And I recall an interview with NZ around S3 where she expressed some frustration in the lack of things for her character to do. I think that the lack of a storyline led to her asking out to do other projects, hence her unavailability and not the other way around.
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Post by mare27 on May 26, 2015 6:46:31 GMT -6
And I recall an interview with NZ around S3 where she expressed some frustration in the lack of things for her character to do. I think that the lack of a storyline led to her asking out to do other projects, hence her unavailability and not the other way around. I'm sure you are right... never saw that interview before, but I do remember trying to "like" "the Rebels" when it was on Amazon trial period...As much as I like the actress, I thought the show was terrible and full of stereotype football players...and she was pretty ditzy...that's probably what they wanted from her...but I hated it. Writing was poor, I thought. Too bad they couldn't have given her more to do in the first three seasons of Justified, to keep her as a core character to the plot...
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Post by ripetebook on May 26, 2015 8:44:56 GMT -6
Maybe they wanted her to be the weakness for Raylan! The controversial side of him. Again the initial basis...story of the marshal returned to Kentucky...where demons from his past lurked!!!! And the first mentioned by Art....was Winona! He knew them at glycoe. And in Lexington! He never remarried cause none of the ladies were winona. And Raylan I think would need that deep abiding love to remarry!!!!
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