|
Post by mare27 on Aug 8, 2013 13:58:58 GMT -6
ripetebook, we were writing at the same time...with a couple of the same thoughts! I also wonder about the family history now lost...could still come back to Limehouse and what he knows about Frances. Isn't this fun!
|
|
|
Post by ripetebook on Aug 8, 2013 14:08:54 GMT -6
do you think we could get twisty enough that Helen was the birth mom and gave him to Frances to raise...unaware of Arlo's cruelty...so she got the money to set her boy free. I think honestly Raylan could handle Helen being his "other" mom. Revealing that after the birth of his child...how cool would that be.
|
|
|
Post by ripetebook on Aug 8, 2013 14:13:20 GMT -6
year was 2000. But I always thought the missing emotion was love...Raylan's for Helen and Helen's for Raylan. I had no doubt of that. And she died after a long illness...which maybe brought Helen in to assist the family...we only know Helen as married to Arlo and having the house on Indian Line...dies before we could know more...her ties to Mags.......very confusing and yet fascinating.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 15:22:51 GMT -6
Uh, I need a clue. What episode are y'all on? Are you already on Season 2?
|
|
|
Post by mare27 on Aug 8, 2013 15:37:18 GMT -6
no, we are on Season 1. Episode 3 and 4 this week, The Fixer and Long in the Tooth. Just started last week, trying to focus on about 2 per week. That will get us thru to the start of the next season. We are sort of focusing on details we may have missed in prior viewings...or just enjoying the re-runs. jump in anytime!
|
|
|
Post by Dolphin on Aug 8, 2013 16:17:16 GMT -6
WT, I just posted Episode 03S1. You can go back to the premiere or start in with Episodes 03 or 04 from Season 1. Whatever you want to do.
It's been fun going over them again and reading everyone's interpretations and insights. Even after watching Season 1 20 times, I'm still finding new things or rediscovering things.
|
|
|
Post by wkw99 on Aug 8, 2013 16:55:37 GMT -6
'Book...do we know for sure that Raylan's mother was sick for a long time? I don't think we've been told exactly how she died, or when. Yes, it said 2000 on the tombstone, I think, but the writers don't seem too concerned with small details like that. They already changed the name of Art's wife from the pilot.
The Fixer is one of my favorite S1 episodes. I love Pinter, and Tim and Rachel's inside joke of sending Raylan to meet him. The pool game with Ava is a study in flirtation. I laugh every time at how Raylan back pedals so quickly after saying that Winona was 'the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen'...he looks at the expression on Ava's face and adds 'Up to that point.' You can't say Raylan is a smooth-talker, but he recovers well. Lol.
WT...I hope you decide to join us in our rewatch. It's a lot of fun! I may not be able to get in two episodes a week once school starts, but I'm going to try.
|
|
|
Post by Dolphin on Aug 8, 2013 17:12:31 GMT -6
I may not be able to get in two episodes a week once school starts, but I'm going to try. Whatever you can do, wkw99k, whenever you can when school starts. No pressure. Jump in whenever you have time. This is fun time.
|
|
|
Post by Dolphin on Aug 8, 2013 17:22:12 GMT -6
year was 2000. But I always thought the missing emotion was love...Raylan's for Helen and Helen's for Raylan. I had no doubt of that. And she died after a long illness...which maybe brought Helen in to assist the family...we only know Helen as married to Arlo and having the house on Indian Line...dies before we could know more...her ties to Mags.......very confusing and yet fascinating. So that means Raylan was 30 when his mother died? I guess I always subscribed more to Justified Wikia's timeline. But on close examination, that would make no sense. justified.wikia.com/wiki/Frances_GivensRaylan often talks about what his Mama taught him. He must have spent a great deal of good, quality time with her up to a certain point.
|
|
|
Post by mare27 on Aug 8, 2013 21:42:10 GMT -6
I was just thinking, body count.... In ep 1, just Bucks, cause Boyd lived. None in Ep 2, right? None for Raylan, I mean, Tim shot Dupree. In the Fixer, Raylan shot Travis, and Travis shot Curtis. so far...
wkw99, whatever you can do will work, as far as watching, we'll probably all have weeks where we can't watch as much as we'd like...
|
|
|
Post by mondayschild on Aug 8, 2013 22:02:39 GMT -6
I just have the sneaking suspicion that Frances suffered from a debilitating depression. I think she thought Arlo was her knight in shining armor and he turned out to be nothing more than a petty criminal.I get the impression that she was above him in education and social status and that she married him because he was handsome and ambitious and a bit of a rebel.Her family probably disowned her.I don't think she was able to be a mother to Raylan and that Arlo, being the criminal that he was, was not any kind of a role model. I think he was also abusive to Frances, this being the reason that she escaped to Noble's Holler. Had Frances been well, I think she might have been a good mother and would have protected Raylan. But she wasn't and Helen took over.
I've been wrong before, and this could be totally off base. But it kind of fits the story line in regards to what little we know.
|
|
|
Post by mondayschild on Aug 8, 2013 22:04:36 GMT -6
Actually, Pinter's description of KY is "inbred, squealacre, pig backwater". I got it memorised as it's so hilarious. I want to write a song called Squealacre. Or name a band after it...
|
|
|
Post by mondayschild on Aug 8, 2013 22:14:42 GMT -6
Sorry, was trying to link with a previous quote by andliv. Did we hear this quote by Pinter very differently? I must be losing my mind. (A distinct possibility.)
|
|
|
Post by weegieburd on Aug 9, 2013 1:14:51 GMT -6
Did we ever find out who took the pictures? Who would be following Raylan around? Or were they following Ava?
|
|
|
Post by motorcitymade on Aug 9, 2013 6:40:22 GMT -6
I thought it was on the order of the AUSA, to see if his case was compromised or something like that?
|
|
|
Post by wkw99 on Aug 9, 2013 6:42:37 GMT -6
I just have the sneaking suspicion that Frances suffered from a debilitating depression. I think she thought Arlo was her knight in shining armor and he turned out to be nothing more than a petty criminal.I get the impression that she was above him in education and social status and that she married him because he was handsome and ambitious and a bit of a rebel.Her family probably disowned her.I don't think she was able to be a mother to Raylan and that Arlo, being the criminal that he was, was not any kind of a role model. I think he was also abusive to Frances, this being the reason that she escaped to Noble's Holler. Had Frances been well, I think she might have been a good mother and would have protected Raylan. But she wasn't and Helen took over. I've been wrong before, and this could be totally off base. But it kind of fits the story line in regards to what little we know. I wonder if she married or fell in love with Arlo before he went to Vietnam and he came back a different man. War, especially an unpopular complicated one like that one, changes people. If Arlo was indeed bipolar, those symptoms would have been exacerbated by combat, no doubt. Maybe he controlled it well enough when he was courting Frances, but combined with the PTSD it all fell apart later? I don't think Frances was above Arlo in social status. She has a cousin among the 'Hill people'. They were most likely on the same level. Helen was wonderful, but very rough around the edges. I see Frances as similar, but as you said, perhaps prone to depression and not as assertive. The one question that bugs me is why she didn't take Raylan with her when she ran away to Noble's Holler.
|
|
|
Post by weegieburd on Aug 9, 2013 7:57:21 GMT -6
I thought it was on the order of the AUSA, to see if his case was compromised or something like that? I don't remember that, I'll need to watch the "denouement" more closely.
|
|
|
Post by mare27 on Aug 9, 2013 10:39:16 GMT -6
HI- Monday and andiiv- I thought the quote from Pinter was "this inbred, squeal like a pig, backwater..."
And about the photos of Raylan and Ava...coming up in "BLOWBACK" - doesn't Raylan ask AUSA if his earlier meeting was with BO's attorney? implying that BO Crowder was behind the photos...I don't think he got an answer back, but I will be watching that episode for possible answers...or was the AUSA's office following Raylan/Ava...?
Tonight, "LONG IN THE TOOTH" "tall good looking white man with a shitload of swagger..." to quote Rachel.
|
|
|
Post by motorcitymade on Aug 9, 2013 20:53:31 GMT -6
Mare27 i heard Pinter as "Squeal like a pig" as well. Of course it is a reference to Ned Beatty's torment during the rape scene in Deliverance. And now I'm hearing Dueling Banjos in my head.
|
|
|
Post by mare27 on Aug 9, 2013 21:20:05 GMT -6
right...that's an image I would want to get rid of quick...:-) although a pretty good movie!
|
|
andiiv
Full Member
Chitty Chitty Gang Bang
Posts: 209
|
Post by andiiv on Aug 10, 2013 12:19:13 GMT -6
Mare27 i heard Pinter as "Squeal like a pig" as well. Of course it is a reference to Ned Beatty's torment during the rape scene in Deliverance. And now I'm hearing Dueling Banjos in my head. You're both probably right. Just with the accent and word slurring I heard it as 'squealacre'. I wish it had been squealacre - it's a brilliant word/concept.
|
|
|
Post by mondayschild on Aug 10, 2013 20:50:48 GMT -6
Okay, I watched "Long in the Tooth" again. It was never my favorite story line, although it had some wonderful, unforgettable elements. After watching it again, I have warmed to it a bit more. The parts that I always loved were the scenes where Raylan and Rachel interacted. It should have been Raylan's case, but Rachel caught it. He tried to explain to her that he did not deliberately jump to the head of the line when he came to Kentucky. She begs to disagree, and he kind of gets her point. She declines to try on the hat.
As the story progresses, Rachel sees just what it is that makes him a great marshal. He is tough when he has to be and thoughtful when he has to be. He has a great technique for eliciting information. He has wonderful radar. The final scene where she tries on the hat and it doesn't fit is a perfect metaphor for the fact that he is who he is and she is who she is. They are different types of marshals. One size does not fit all. Rachel knows that she can learn from Raylan. Someday, he will learn from her, too. A measure of respect is growing between them.
The scenes with Raylan, Gio's thug from Miami, and his hired "tour guide" are wonderful, too. "I see you again, I kill you." Classic Raylan. He gives plenty of warning. If you are dumb enough to ignore him you do it at your own peril.
So, I like this episode more than I originally did. There are parts I always loved. Now I love more.
|
|
|
Post by mare27 on Aug 10, 2013 21:55:17 GMT -6
hi- watched Long in the Tooth last night. it was not a favorite when I first saw it except for the scenes with Rachel and Raylan and the hat! Loved those scenes and her line about the "tall good looking white man with a shitload of swagger..." what a description. We learned a bit about Raylan's past. (Losing Rollie and eating ice cream.) And there was a Deadwood connection...remember Jen, who had to die in place of Trixie? that was Shawnie, who knew Mindy, the receptionist and who gave Raylan her cell phone number. It was weird, wasn't it, that Raylan and Rachel had to fly from Kentucky, thru Chicago, to LA, and that Rollie that dentist was still sitting in his car at the scene of the crime? must be time travel magic, like how Raylan so often travels between Lexington and Harlan in many episodes. Also liked the scene with Raylan, Rollie and Mindy, by the side of the school bus, and the story about wanting to be a dentist. "Why would I laugh?". and I like seeing Clarence Williams Jr. (mod squad) as the "angry black man" interacting with Rachel and Raylan. This was a good episode for Rachel. As usual Raylan looked good...Body count, 2 more for Raylan; he warned them!
|
|
|
Post by mondayschild on Aug 10, 2013 22:28:18 GMT -6
mare, it's called "poetic license" and yes, at times it strains credibility. We know that traveling from Lexington to Harlan is not a quick trip, let alone going to LA. We have to just go with the flow. We have to dispend our disbelief in aid of the show. I try not to analyze this too carefully. It ruins it for me.
|
|
|
Post by mare27 on Aug 11, 2013 8:57:05 GMT -6
right, sometimes too much analysis gets in the way...relax, enjoy the ride, I say.
|
|