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Post by Dolphin on Aug 2, 2013 23:44:22 GMT -6
Some of us have decided to re-watch Justified together. The more the merrier! All 4 seasons. How about we post our thoughts on re-watching Justified, here, beginning with the Pilot? We know there are 52 episodes with about 22 to 24 weeks before January is upon us. That's about 2 episodes per week until we're almost to the premiere of Season 5 of Justified. I love the idea of posting new things we notice upon re-watching, but never noticed before. But you can post anything you like. Let's start with the Pilot: Episode 01S1 Hole in the Wall.
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Post by weegieburd on Aug 3, 2013 1:33:48 GMT -6
I watched it last night. What I thought was interesting was how I viewed all the characters NOW as opposed to when I first watched it, because I now have more of an insight into them. The main ones, of course are Raylan and Boyd. Taking them at face value you see them as good looking good guy and quirky criminal.....but we haven't got to see the layers yet. We know there is something lurking with Raylan because of the references to his father and his response to them. I tried to view it like I was watching it for the first time but that was a waste of time....we just know the characters sooooo well by now it's difficult to throw off that knowledge.
Looking forward to watching more.
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Post by wkw99 on Aug 3, 2013 4:02:56 GMT -6
Some of us have decided to re-watch Justified together. The more the merrier! All 4 seasons. How about we post our thoughts on re-watching Justified, here, beginning with the Pilot? We know there are 52 episodes with about 22 to 24 weeks before January is upon us. That's about 2 episodes per week until we're almost to the premiere of Season 5 of Justified. I love the idea of posting new things we notice upon re-watching, but never noticed before. But you can post anything you like. Let's start with the Pilot: Episode 01S1 Hole in the Wall. Don't you mean " Fire in the Hole"? I agree, weegie. I find S1 harder to watch now because of that. What I know now about the characters colors my viewing. I didn't like Ava the first time I watched it. She was clingy and very presumptuous about her relationship with Raylan. Despite that, though, I did see her as somewhat of an 'innocent', caught up in events beyond her control that pushed her to do something (shoot her husband) out of character. Now, knowing what we know...I wonder if that's just who she is and how she handles problems. Was she just manipulating the situation (and Raylan) the whole time? No doubt Bowman beat her, but after that her actions seem to point to some wily smarts on her part. She's certainly more complicated than she appears at first. I had forgotten about the scene where Raylan watches Winona in the courtroom. Even if he'd never gone to her house in that ep, it was still made clear in that small, wordless moment exactly how much he loves her, much like Raylan's moment at the elevators last season after Arlo's death. TO is so good at that kind of thing.
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Post by motorcitymade on Aug 3, 2013 8:11:13 GMT -6
I'm in on the re-watch! What ever happened to the office gal who stammered at Raylan saying she had her own apartment with "no cats"? I though they should have kept her. I've often thought If I ever met TO I would have a similar reaction. LOL.
Well I'm off back to working weekends again...gotta go, gals.
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Post by Dolphin on Aug 3, 2013 12:58:06 GMT -6
So sorry. Yes it is Fire in the Hole. My mind was still on the other discussion about the S4 finale where Raylan is patching the hole. This was an excellent series pilot! I LOVED Ava in the pilot. She turns out to be one of the few things that Raylan missed about Kentucky. The dialog Joelle Carter delivered when she first meets Raylan at her front door and later in her living room? That is some of the finest acting I've ever seen on the show ... in any season. Joelle was pitch perfect as the flirty young woman who had just shot her husband. And asking 'What will I get?' if she helps Raylan find Boyd? That theme runs throughout the series from the folks in Harlan. I LOVED Dewey Crowe. The scenes between him and Raylan (in the Pilot and other episodes) are some of my very favorites. I LOVED Rachel. For the short amount of screen time she had, she made a strong impression in the pilot. I wanted to know more about her. I didn't LOVE Raylan and Boyd in the pilot. (I had already fallen in love with Raylan/TO when I saw my first Justified episode, 'Reckoning.') The background information on both of these characters was vital ... but this is not anywhere near my favorite episode for either of them. I also didn't love Winona. I thought she looked (hair/teeth) really strange in the last scene with Raylan. She looked much, much, much better in later episodes. So did Raylan. I also didn't love the overuse of the Gangstagrass theme song in the pilot. That shows me how much money they did not have to make pilot. It would have been a much better pilot with more original score and more judicious use of Gangstagrass. My favorite scenes were: 1) The opening scene with Raylan and Tommy Bucks, 2) Raylan going to Ava's house, 3) All scenes with Raylan and Dewey Crowe, and 4) the final dining room scene with Raylan and Boyd. Brilliant!!
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Post by mare27 on Aug 3, 2013 14:42:24 GMT -6
I started watching Justified originally with the episode after Winona robs the locker, the scene where she tells Raylan she's sorry and he says "I know, that's the only reason I'm not beating you with the phone book" ...it was so crazy, it got my attention. And he also looked amazing in that blue shirt, telling her it will be alright, right before she shows him the bag of money. but I digress... Now if I had seen the pilot as my introduction to this show, I would have been put off by that awful suit Raylan wore in the opening...baggy and not flattering...yes, I'm superficial...but first impressions can only be made once. Also in the pilot, I thought Winona looked a lot different too, teeth, maybe. I liked the scene with Ava and Raylan cause she was so crazy...describing all her actions, including cleaning up with Lysol...But he has a weak spot, so he paid attention to her, when he should have run the other way, with all her issues. Loved the scene at the church with Boyd, that hug really got me...between these two characters? a hug? what is going on? a lot of history, we didn't know at the time. I have read the short story since then, it is amazing how much dialog came word for word off the pages...
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Post by mare27 on Aug 3, 2013 14:51:47 GMT -6
I also watched episode 2 this morning. Raylan looked so good in that comfy looking suede-ish tan jacket and jeans....way better than that suit he started out with in the pilot...and I noticed he wore a metal watchband in ep 1 and a leather one in ep 2....means nothing, but I like the man's style, so I notice these things. Winona looked way better, hair, in this episode. and I liked their interaction by the elevator, pissed off divorced people, I can relate. I loved the scene at boyd's bedside, TO looked wonderful and also in the car with Dewey. When he referred to him as "Chinatown" it killed me...(Jack Nicholson reference with bandaged nose thru most of the film)...and I liked the line with Ava, "do you know why Pentacostals don't have sex standing up?" The image of them "sleeping" him on the floor was funny, his face said it all...Liked this episode.
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Post by wkw99 on Aug 3, 2013 18:24:09 GMT -6
dolphin, to clarify, I didn't mind Ava all that much in the pilot the first time I watched it. My comments were encompassing all of S1, especially when I re-watch it now. My husband has watched from the beginning but the first episode of Justified I ever saw was S2 Episode 1. When Mags poisoned Loretta's father, I remember being horrified and drawn in all at the same time. I got the dvds of S1 and watched the whole season in a week. I loved Winona from the beginning, since the first time I saw her was talking to him on the porch right before the 'Son of a Bitch' scene. So, I knew right from the start that things weren't going to work out with Ava. Maybe that colored my first impression of them together.
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Post by mondayschild on Aug 3, 2013 21:05:01 GMT -6
I just watched the pilot. It finally dawned on me how much they like the word "shit."
It was great to see Dewey again. He was MIA in season 4, and I long for his brand of crazy.
Ava: She's a flirt, and she has hopes. But I don't see her as criminal at this point. If Boyd had not returned to the dark side, I think Ava would have just been happy to be in love and their life would have been kind of normal. Of course, this would have been boring and would not advance the plot, but I just didn't see her as a bad girl in season 1.
I still love how Rachel is all marshal all of the time. She takes the pastor to task for dealing drugs in the church while everyone else is trying to cajole him into talking. And she has one of the great lines of the episode: "Please. Either one of you do something stupid."
We get a quick preview into what makes Raylan tick. He is in no hurry to see his father. He does not suffer criminals gladly. If push comes to shove, he will shoot you. He has unresolved feelings for Winona.AND, he has enough baggage to sink the Titanic. No wonder we were hooked from the beginning.
And one more thing. Isn't Art just the best?( I think we all agree on that.)
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Post by Dolphin on Aug 4, 2013 10:29:14 GMT -6
Episode 02S1: RiverbrookFollowing are observations upon re-watching this episode: The prison band, ‘The Big House Boys,’ performing in stereotypical jailhouse black and white stripes reminded me of ‘The Soggy Bottom Boys’ in ‘O Brother Where Art Thou.’ Had to chuckle at the lone shouted request of “Freebird!” from the audience. As someone who has kin who play in a Lynard Skynyrd tribute band, I've heard 'Freebird' shouted many a time. Raylan looks hot in this episode! Love it. I give major kudos to the hair and wardrobe department. Same with Winona. She looked 180 degrees better than she did in the pilot, all due to hair and wardrobe. Loved Art’s line (one of my all-time Art favorites) “If you was in the first grade and you bit someone every week, they’d start to think of you as a biter.” And of course his first of many warnings to Raylan about not sleeping with star witness, Ava. Loved more Tim and Rachel and learning more about them. Also, Tim wanting ‘to have a word ’ … the first of so many times that phrase is used. Random. I recognized Johnny Sneed (Cousin Dupree) from CBS’ ‘ The Guardian’ where he had a recurring role also playing a rat. Aside from making Dewey Crowe a lovable dufus, the episode takes a lot of time on the character of bad guy of the week, Cooper, making us actually feel something for the guy. This has been a key to the success of Justified … making the bad guys likeable, funny, relatable. Favorite scenes: 1) When Raylan was forced to give up his guns, badge, and hat by the gentleman prison escapee, Douglas Cooper. 2) Dewey Crowe. Loved when he was turned around the wrong way on the ‘feet’ outside his holding cell. And the ‘Chinatown’ reference to Dewey Crowe and his bandaged nose was such brilliant, clever dialog writing that Justified is now known for. 3) Boy, Howdy. Raylan in a wifebeater! Those shoulders! Those arms! Squee! Wkw99, I do notice Ava being more aggressive, independent than she was in the pilot. Not as naive. Again, did not love Ganstagrass theme being played at the end scene (before closing credits). That’s 3 times in this episode. It’s a good theme song, but give it a rest already! The remainder of the ep is beautifully scored and gives credence to and the feel of the production.
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Post by mondayschild on Aug 4, 2013 21:46:13 GMT -6
I watched Riverbrook tonight. I pretty much had this one memorized. But something new occurred to me. When Winona confronts Raylan at the elevator, she says that Raylan's visit totally unnerved Gary.He didn't sleep all night and was still shaking the next morning. I have to wonder. Is Gary a total wuss? (Well, yeah.) Does he feel threatened by Raylan because he was married to Winona? (Maybe.) OR, when he saw the dark figure sitting at his table did he initially think it was someone from the mob? We didn't learn until near the end of the season (Hatless) that Gary was in deep to the mob. Somehow, I don't think that Raylan could have had that earth-shattering an effect on Gary. But the mob, showing up to threaten him, could elicit enough fear to keep him awake and shaking the next day.
The posts that we read from the writers indicate that they don't work very far ahead. They write based on how they see things going as they go along. So I don't know if my supposition could be anywhere nearly plausible. Could the writers have written a scene in ep.1 that would play out in ep. 12? I don't have a clue. But what Winona said about Gary in ep. 2 really got me to thinking.
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Post by wkw99 on Aug 5, 2013 4:25:40 GMT -6
Riverbrook:
First thing I said when I watched this the first time was "OMg, that's Pam!" because the guy's ex-wife plays Pam on True Blood. dolphin, the band reminded me of 'Oh Brother, Where Art Thou', too. I think it was the striped prison suits.
This episode starts out great with Raylan being stowed away in the freezer. And he's so happy when Art gives him the hat back! Awww.
I loved loved loved the scene at the elevator. The pout on Raylan's face was priceless. Their body language, the tilt of Winona's chin, everything about them said that they were in no way done with each other. And yes, Winona looked much better, but in Ep. 1 she was supposed to have been woken up in the middle of the night, so...
mondayschild, that is an interesting take on Gary's fear. I wonder if S1 was perhaps, more strictly plotted out than latter seasons. Even if the writers just had an outline, they knew Gary was going to be in trouble at some point, because they'd probably already written Winona going to Raylan with that list of names. So I think you are probably onto something. What surprises me is that they never had Raylan realize that it was this possible threat and not just his presence that worried Gary so much.
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Post by ripetebook on Aug 5, 2013 7:35:03 GMT -6
Fire In the Hole: My first meeting with Timothy Olyphant. And from the first, I was smitten. Raylan sitting down opposite Bucks. The shooting and his exchanges with Dan Grant "you do know we haven't shot people in say 100 years" sort of set up Raylan. And then Winona's "you are the angriest man I habe ever known" gave no hint of how she still loved him but sure as hell gave us views of Raylan's love of Winona. Loved those initial scenes with Art and we all know that has been a key to this show. We pick up quickly that they have a history and that Raylan can be a handful. And the constant references to "Arlo" sure gave us things to think about. Great pilot to get us wanting more.
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Post by ripetebook on Aug 5, 2013 7:40:28 GMT -6
Riverbrook: Has one of my all-time fav scenes and we see so little. He's caught and the conversation with the old man as they put him in the storage room...and Raylan locked in "well shit" no anger just quiet frustration. I loved him in that one. And Ava...sweet smitten Ava on his bed after Art said do not sleep with her...and he comes home and he takes the floor...a true gentleman...they gave us insight into the man slowly...allowing us to fall in love easily. You see Raylan the marshal is fine but Raylan the man is a bit adrift...he is lost a bit being back where he swore he would never go...funny how now he feels at home...there isn't that lost sensation. On to the Fixer.
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Post by Dolphin on Aug 5, 2013 9:16:05 GMT -6
I watched Riverbrook tonight. I pretty much had this one memorized. But something new occurred to me. When Winona confronts Raylan at the elevator, she says that Raylan's visit totally unnerved Gary.He didn't sleep all night and was still shaking the next morning. I have to wonder. Is Gary a total wuss? (Well, yeah.) Does he feel threatened by Raylan because he was married to Winona? (Maybe.) OR, when he saw the dark figure sitting at his table did he initially think it was someone from the mob? We didn't learn until near the end of the season (Hatless) that Gary was in deep to the mob. Somehow, I don't think that Raylan could have had that earth-shattering an effect on Gary. But the mob, showing up to threaten him, could elicit enough fear to keep him awake and shaking the next day. The posts that we read from the writers indicate that they don't work very far ahead. They write based on how they see things going as they go along. So I don't know if my supposition could be anywhere nearly plausible. Could the writers have written a scene in ep.1 that would play out in ep. 12? I don't have a clue. But what Winona said about Gary in ep. 2 really got me to thinking. Yes, Monday. I remember thinking the same thing, never dreaming it was the mob until later. This and Art warning Raylan about sleeping with Ava (and Boyd and Raylan being frienemies) were the first 'foreshadows' given to us by the writers. Of course, by now, we're seasoned viewers and are all suspicious when the writers give us a little gem of things to come.
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Post by ripetebook on Aug 5, 2013 9:26:52 GMT -6
I always traced his fear back to what has been referenced several times...that Raylan was gonna shoot Gary. Gary stole the love of Raylan's life and we all know (thanks to Winona) that he is the angriest man" maybe Gary believed Raylan would.....or could it be he "knew" what he took, Raylan could get back. It was a much later episode but Winona admits that night she knew her marriage to Gary was over and all it took was Raylan walking in...Raylan's one true is Winona and now we know...Winona's one true is Raylan......maybe gary thought as long as Raylan never returns to Kentucky he can keep Winona. But in one day Raylan returns and Winona knows....possibly Gary "knew" as well.
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Post by Dolphin on Aug 5, 2013 10:03:26 GMT -6
I always traced his fear back to what has been referenced several times...that Raylan was gonna shoot Gary. Gary stole the love of Raylan's life and we all know (thanks to Winona) that he is the angriest man" maybe Gary believed Raylan would.....or could it be he "knew" what he took, Raylan could get back. It was a much later episode but Winona admits that night she knew her marriage to Gary was over and all it took was Raylan walking in...Raylan's one true is Winona and now we know...Winona's one true is Raylan......maybe gary thought as long as Raylan never returns to Kentucky he can keep Winona. But in one day Raylan returns and Winona knows....possibly Gary "knew" as well. I remember thinking in the early days that Winona was being contrary and was very mercenary. Wanting the big, nice house ... 'things.' I thought that was why she went with Gary (she couldn't have those nice things on a Court Reporters salary), and there were many digs made about Raylan's paycheck. (I wonder how much does a marshal make?) And the being contrary? ... It took a while for me to see that was her defense mechanism to keep her distance from Raylan. It wasn't until later that she opened up about being afraid of the dangers of Raylan's job.
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Post by ripetebook on Aug 5, 2013 10:10:56 GMT -6
Not that it counts...but in Hatless she refers to "how he lives with his grind...don't know how you do it..I sure couldn't" and that Gary was a dreamer. But his dreams got him involved with the mob. And Raylan's base is approx 1100.00 per week..."overtime is extra pay and if he "gets sick or is hung over or takes a beating he gets paid." (that is from The Spoil. Gosh guess Raylan's lines just stick with you...ha ha ha.
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Post by Dolphin on Aug 5, 2013 11:07:58 GMT -6
Not that it counts...but in Hatless she refers to "how he lives with his grind...don't know how you do it..I sure couldn't" and that Gary was a dreamer. But his dreams got him involved with the mob. And Raylan's base is approx 1100.00 per week..."overtime is extra pay and if he "gets sick or is hung over or takes a beating he gets paid." (that is from The Spoil. Gosh guess Raylan's lines just stick with you...ha ha ha. Yep. She fell for Gary's ambition, however fruitless it may have been. Thanks for the salary information. For someone who has been on the job as long as Raylan has, that's really not a lot of money. Along the same lines ... Raylan's Lincoln is the 'company car?' Issued by the Marshal Service? Do Rachel, and Tim have work cars, too? We always see them riding with Raylan. The Lincoln is a gas hog. I'd love to see Raylan with his accountant doing his taxes and his work-related expenses. LOL I know these questions don't have anything to do with anything, but I wonder?
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Post by mare27 on Aug 5, 2013 11:42:53 GMT -6
I had not thought about the "company car" but I wondered, Does Raylan grocery shop? does he eat out every meal? Who cleans his motel room? Does he do laundry? just struck me funny to think about the everyday things in conjunction with Raylan!
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Post by ripetebook on Aug 5, 2013 12:18:28 GMT -6
this is so sad: we saw in Bulletville his clothes are "delivered... washed and folded" I have that service due to bad legs so I know. And think of that place above the bar...we ever see Raylan in the kitchen? Oh my bet is there is not even a paper plate, plastic fork...he gets coffee in the bar in the morning...Raylan has no domestic skills. But he does have that walk, talk and gun thing working for him. Only place I can see him maybe making some eggs is this suspension and staying at Arlo's....make that Raylan's place...it is all his now. Base pay may be based strictly on 35 hours...it was testing Carol and Boyd during that town meeting. He even referred to the apartment and his per diem...base pay plus a place to live, a car to drive...heck even the gas. The repairs it was implied are also covered....and Raylan is not a spender. So 1100.00 may be just fine.
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Post by Dolphin on Aug 5, 2013 12:24:51 GMT -6
this is so sad: we saw in Bulletville his clothes are "delivered... washed and folded" I have that service due to bad legs so I know. And think of that place above the bar...we ever see Raylan in the kitchen? Oh my bet is there is not even a paper plate, plastic fork...he gets coffee in the bar in the morning...Raylan has no domestic skills. But he does have that walk, talk and gun thing working for him. Only place I can see him maybe making some eggs is this suspension and staying at Arlo's....make that Raylan's place...it is all his now. Base pay may be based strictly on 35 hours...it was testing Carol and Boyd during that town meeting. He even referred to the apartment and his per diem...base pay plus a place to live, a car to drive...heck even the gas. The repairs it was implied are also covered....and Raylan is not a spender. So 1100.00 may be just fine. If Raylan has all those benefits (including probably retirement benefits) ... having $4400 a month in totally expendable income is not too shabby. Oh, yeah ... he had free drinks at the bar, too.
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Post by ripetebook on Aug 5, 2013 12:33:45 GMT -6
Noticed: this thread must have been needed by many of us...like a cure for withdrawl. It is active and fun and we are seeing things we never discussed before. Can I ask...anyone else notice as the seasons pass...his hands are on those hips more and more...again no ojection here...just noting his every movement...always loved his walk when he sort of patted his thigh as he walked...OMG think I watch that fine speciment of male perfection way to carefully. Anyone else have the same affliction and do any of us want a cure?
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Post by weegieburd on Aug 5, 2013 14:11:08 GMT -6
I noticed the patting of the leg when he was walking up to Gail's house in the S4 finale and then when I watched the pilot he was doing it way back then when he was walking up to Boyd's church.
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andiiv
Full Member
Chitty Chitty Gang Bang
Posts: 209
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Post by andiiv on Aug 5, 2013 15:32:58 GMT -6
In 'Pronto' it was stated that Raylan was held back a pay grade on account of accidentally letting Harry Arno escape. Arno became Arnold Pinter in Justified, I believe, and it was the dentist guy who Raylan let escape. So maybe he's on a lower pay grade in Justified on account of this?
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