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Post by wkw99 on Mar 30, 2015 17:17:55 GMT -6
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Post by mare27 on Mar 30, 2015 20:23:53 GMT -6
... I don't want to read the spoilers...just want to anticipate the third from last episode tomorrow...
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 31, 2015 7:09:28 GMT -6
All,
1. Any big blow up that kills three people with forensics not knowing where to start - it stands to reason - is in the mine. I will bet it is Zachariah, Carl and his brother. E11 is too early for a main character to die. Second best bet is Wynn, Mikey and the new gunslinger.
2. I have watched and re-watched to the last episode on my way back from Europe. The bags are lighter when the gunslinger and Markham are loaded them into Avery's auto. By the time Boyd gets them? Avery struggles to carry the both loads. I think Avery sees Boone as a liability. Why? Because he inserted bricks into the bag later; when Boone can't see it.
So again, You have Ava running with less cash then she thought. Boyd escaping to go after much less money than he thinks. Boone thinking Avery has lessened his pay day. Boone is there to dangerously confront Markham. The Marshal's thinking Ava has a large sum of money. And the only one that can call Avery's bluff s Boone.
JC
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Post by siss13 on Mar 31, 2015 11:54:15 GMT -6
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 31, 2015 12:02:26 GMT -6
I think the money issue is one we must agree to disagree. Avery is older and carrying ten mil...the longer distance the heavier the load. Boones is too loyal to Markham...blindly loyal. If Boyd escapes I don't not know which matters more...revenge or his money. The spoiler called it a brutal brawl! Why would anyone be back in the mine? Avery and Katherine are headed for a heated discussion. Boone wants an OK Corral moment with Raylan. Jail is where I sense a brutal brawl...Carl and Earl come to mind. But then we have Mikey filled with his code and Duffy fighting to live...and being smarter than his henchman. Lots to think about.
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 31, 2015 15:12:46 GMT -6
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 31, 2015 17:55:32 GMT -6
Ripe,
Agree to disagree. But it looks like I was dead right that Vasquez is going to accuse RG of being in on the "what ever is in the bag" after not stopping Ava.
Like Vasquez is really going to matter though ....
Name me one time the legacy Lexington pecker woods getting anything done right unless Rylan helps out.
I find them annoying me more and more.
JC
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 31, 2015 21:26:26 GMT -6
Gonna make a quick couple of remarks and return to really comment.
The cockroach is truly a cockroach!
The last true witness is dead...Boyd will never be caught for all his cold blooded kills!
I hate Vasquez. I think he has been waiting for every day he has known Raylan to get him for sleeping with Ava!
That preview was sadly true....Art is telling Raylan he will track him down...omg.
And lastly...someone tell me why Raylan hung up his badge? To save Ava? To get Boyd? Or a bit of both....we all know it is not nor ever could be the ten mil.
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Post by mare27 on Mar 31, 2015 22:50:10 GMT -6
Gonna make a quick couple of remarks and return to really comment. The cockroach is truly a cockroach! The last true witness is dead...Boyd will never be caught for all his cold blooded kills! I hate Vasquez. I think he has been waiting for every day he has known Raylan to get him for sleeping with Ava! That preview was sadly true....Art is telling Raylan he will track him down...omg. And lastly...someone tell me why Raylan hung up his badge? To save Ava? To get Boyd? Or a bit of both....we all know it is not nor ever could be the ten mil. Wow, this was brutal! First impressions...well, the stories we were all anticipating about the money/the switch/the hidden treasure did not seem to come into play...although that may not be over yet... You're right about the cockroach...and that was a hard to watch scene...
Boyd, desperate to get out of the hospital, and only Dunlop is guarding him, wow. Boyd killed Carl without hesitation or a second thought, I think he is capable of killing Ava or anyone else in his way, just like that! And I forgot that Carl was the last link to Boyd killing Johnny and Dewey, so I guess that won't come in to the demise of Boyd. Boyd is evil, not just a bad guy...I am hoping Raylan brings him in...he will suffer more for his crimes, in jail.
I hate Vasquez too...what a little bastard. He has no proof of his accusations and I was disappointed that Art and Rachel did not defend him better. THey know Raylan is on his way to Florida with his family...and that he is not 'dirty" and his only obsession is getting Boyd.
I thought there would be a Boon/Raylan shoot out...they are teasing us...that guy really creeps me out...maybe Loretta will shoot him if he surprises her again.
I wonder too about the badges left in the car...not a good sign. Happy to see the "hill people" are part of next week's chapter. And did I see Constable Bob?
Bye bye Katherine, Mikey and Carl! More later...
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 31, 2015 23:18:42 GMT -6
Some of the reviewers are actually questioning Raylan wanting a share of the money! Please we who know the marshal know he wants boyd like Boyd wants the ten mil and to get Ava! Tho I think his biggest need is the money and revenge!
Was Ava always planning to steal the money with zachiriah? I think she tricked Raylan..from from the start!
If Raylan has lost his badge...wouldn't it be wild if he went into business with Loretta? Winona said she'd live anywhere...in a fancy house in Harlan legally selling pot..that would be a great twist!!!!!!
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Post by siss13 on Apr 1, 2015 6:37:39 GMT -6
Brilliant episode. Every minute of it. Raylan is going to lose his badge. I have a feeling this is the last straw for Art. He's not going to have his whole office tarnished because of Raylan, even if he ends up catching Boyd and Ava. Did you all read GY post mortem? www.yahoo.com/tv/justified-mikey-katherine-death-scene-115159611665.htmlGlad they opted out of some decisions for last night. I don't want Gutterson to die. He's a good Marshal. Boyd just might make it out of Harlan alive. Probably with no money, though. (Walton is amazing). I probably was the only one clapping when he broke out of the hospital, hat trick to boot! I don't know what's going to happen to Ava and her uncle. Grubes was their last chance, I believe. Hope Raylan finds them before Boyd. Boon and Avery are still in the mix, just not sure where they will land. Two more...
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 1, 2015 8:07:36 GMT -6
I'm stunned. In awe. Wow seems inadequate.
More later, obviously.
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Post by mondayschild on Apr 1, 2015 8:14:47 GMT -6
Just a few thoughts:
All who were concerned about introducing Grubes as a new character so late in the season can now rest easy. Grubes has trekked his last trail. But so interesting how a dead body throws a monkey wrench into the whole escape plan for Ava and Zachariah.
Vasquez. I hate him, too, 'book. He should understand a bit about Raylan. He is just as driven as Raylan is.
Carl. We were so hoping that he would turn Boyd in over Dewey. Boyd trusts no one anymore. But there have been teasers about our not having seen the end of Dewey yet. Ava's got the necklace now. I think she'd turn Boyd in in a minute. We all know Dewey NEVER took off that necklace.
Kathryn, Wynn, Mikey. I don't know where to begin! LOL! Kathryn had to go. She's been playing both ends against the middle for too long. That stuff comes back to bite you. For a second I thought Wynn would surely take a fatal bullet, but Mikey, who had a "code," found that loyalty to one's boss can also be a code. He was very brave and I'm sorry for his death. I'll miss him. I think somewhere down the road he could have humanized Wynn a little bit. Loved how Wynn held him as he died. In a way they were like an old married couple.
Winter in Harlan: Remember the recent talk about how it always seems to be either spring or fall in Harlen? Well it certainly looked like winter last night. Did they blow in snow or take to the mountains for the real thing when filming? I haven't read the re-cap yet. Perhaps that will tell us.
Loretta: I see a showdown between her and Boon. He is so smarmy. I want him gone in a spectacular way, but Loretta doesn't do "spectacular." She has a very quiet intensity about her when dealing with creeps. On the other hand, maybe Markham will have to do it himself or maybe it will come down to Raylan.( I really don't want to see him shoot anyone. He's in enough trouble.) So go to it Loretta. And BTW, you might want to take your money and do something legal with it so you don't end up like Mags. BUT, speaking of Mags...girl, do you have any of that Apple Pie left?
I have no idea how this is going to turn out, but I'm at the point where I want Boyd gone. He has lost any redeeming qualities that he once may have had. But I have two words: Constable Bob. He saved the day in season 4, and I think it would be fabulous if he played a big part in ending this saga. All the geniuses have messed up. Maybe it would be nice to see someone whom many consider to be a loser ride in in his shiny new car with his go bag and save one of our heroes from doom.
Just my thoughts. I'll go read the re-cap and see how wrong I am!
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 1, 2015 10:19:56 GMT -6
What did Raylan do that was bad? Even Art defended him to Vasquez. Raylan is no thief. Raylan is not a killer. Yes he and Ava way back screwed. Big whoop. All his actions have netted good results. He ended the Crowder rule in Harlan. Ended the Bennett rule again in Harlan. Took out quarles and ended the insurgent of the Dixie mafia. Stopped the Detroit mafia taking the lives of his family....among so many others. And the costs to him?father...aunt..second chance with Winona...and now to stop Boyd and honor his job he left his badge! What in this case has he done wrong? Rachel and Vasquez pushed for results! Raylan was handling her!!!! Go on naysayers...set me straight! !!
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Post by mare27 on Apr 1, 2015 11:35:53 GMT -6
What did Raylan do that was bad? Even Art defended him to Vasquez. Raylan is no thief. Raylan is not a killer. Yes he and Ava way back screwed. Big whoop. All his actions have netted good results. He ended the Crowder rule in Harlan. Ended the Bennett rule again in Harlan. Took out quarles and ended the insurgent of the Dixie mafia. Stopped the Detroit mafia taking the lives of his family....among so many others. And the costs to him?father...aunt..second chance with Winona...and now to stop Boyd and honor his job he left his badge! What in this case has he done wrong? Rachel and Vasquez pushed for results! Raylan was handling her!!!! Go on naysayers...set me straight! !! I agree with you for the most part...(also Raylan got Drew Thompson, remember? That was supposed to be a game changer for him.) I hate Vasquez and his smart assness... Ava was giving Raylan info...she was also trying to stay alive... but I think he is mainly pissed that Raylan did not shoot Ava or stop her after she shot Boyd...but since Vasquez wasn't there, he must be making a lot of assumptions about the circumstances...there would be reasons why Raylan did not shoot her other than she is his partner in crime and they are in it together. for one thing, they were out there in the dark, Ava has a gun pointed at him and she already shot one man, Raylan knows he can track her, it's what he does...he has no car to chase her or follow at that moment... plus on a personal level, he does not want to see her hurt or killed if not necessary- doesn't make him her partner. There was a similar inconsistency when Dewey was suing the marshal service...remember they talked about Dewey being kidnapped and his whole kidney episode, inferring that the marshal service and Raylan in particular were responsible...That was knuckleheads from the prison, not Raylan. He did smash Dewey a couple of times...but that whole scenario was not logical, in trying the blame the marshals for all Dewey's troubles. Vasquez can take a long walk off a short pier...what a jerk. I hope something "unpleasant' happens to him... (cattle prod?)
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 1, 2015 11:58:52 GMT -6
Vasquez never seems to prosecute cases! He wants ones where he has no work...just an easy conviction. He shoots down every effort Raylan makes....I really think he harbors a real grudge over that thing with Ava. Like maybe he wanted to screw her himself. Now he gets to destroy two at one time!
My real fear....what Art may do to Raylan in the finale. It would destroy both men! Art knows Raylan is a good man..yes he all but breaks the rules but he truly feels justified. He believes in the law...just black and white...no shades of gray.
If I were stuck in a foxhole..I would feel safe with Raylan givens! Happy as well.
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Post by siss13 on Apr 1, 2015 12:17:54 GMT -6
What did Raylan do that was bad? Even Art defended him to Vasquez. Raylan is no thief. Raylan is not a killer. Yes he and Ava way back screwed. Big whoop. All his actions have netted good results. He ended the Crowder rule in Harlan. Ended the Bennett rule again in Harlan. Took out quarles and ended the insurgent of the Dixie mafia. Stopped the Detroit mafia taking the lives of his family....among so many others. And the costs to him?father...aunt..second chance with Winona...and now to stop Boyd and honor his job he left his badge! What in this case has he done wrong? Rachel and Vasquez pushed for results! Raylan was handling her!!!! Go on naysayers...set me straight! !! Okay, let's leave out Raylan's past transgressions and just focus on this season. After defying his superior's direct order, he can be charged with insubordination, for starters. The rest is up for grabs, based on Vasquez's speculation that Raylan let Ava get away with the money and that she was a bad choice as a CI from the start because of her history with Raylan and Boyd Crowder. He'd have to build a case, and I doubt that will happen. At this point, I think Raylan is just making bad decisions while trying to do a noble deed as a Marshal and Harlan native. And that might turn out okay, or have serious repercussions for Raylan and his co-workers. That's why Art is really on his ass this time. He's covered for him in the past, and so have Rachel and Tim, without knowing the full story of what Raylan has really done. But, I think Art's done defending Raylan's rogue work style. Just my opinion. We'll see how it plays out in the next couple of episodes. Raylan will either be a hero or an embarrassment to the Marshal's service, or a little of both. Either way, he'll leave a legacy behind.
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Post by justifiedceo on Apr 1, 2015 12:58:11 GMT -6
WOW,
This board is alive!
A few first observations.
1. As I have been saying since E1, with Rylan hurting Dewey and Boyd murdering him, any gray area between these two characters was from the jump decided to be black and white. Any anti-hero stories of Boyd have been systematically eliminated. Boyd loves Boyd. Always has. Always will be, until he meets his fate.
2. All this "dirty marshal" crap is simply a plot device to keep the viewer pulling for Rylan against the odds. It's trumped up. And it will not last.
3. Boyd needs the money for Boyd. Rylan needs the money to keep his star. That's now what is a stake.
4. Again, at the end of the day, is this show going to be about Rylan returning home, confronting his childhood and marriage demons, and emerging a new man? Or is this a story about a martyred Marshal because good Marshals do die doing their duty? Or is the a story of a hero who is unfairly treated by the corruption of our legal system? Anything but the first narrative isn't true to the show's original roots and is not what Elmore would do!
5. I cried with Mikey and Wynn. Terrific performance. I saw unfiltered love between two flawed people.
6. Does anyone really believe that Winona and Willa lost their husband and father?
All of us Rylan fans, don't lose the faith. Everything is going to turn out right!
JC
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 1, 2015 13:14:03 GMT -6
Okay time to review the episode.
Hate Vasquez. His blind hate for Raylan is too obvious! Be honest...the marshal is good at catching those big bad.
Poor Mikey...he sure was a hero for a cockroach. And now we know Wynn killed an ausa and that could be a life sentence....if anyone knew. Suspect Avery will seek vengeance for the death of Katherine?
Ava was almost caught. Had they let Raylan get on the chopper all would be resolved. Why is it they still don't get that he has brilliant instincts...his biggest asset.
Rachel needed to be demoted! She pushed Raylan along with Vasquez and they are why this case blew up. Raylan was working it their way...slow and steady his way works better. Rachel knows that. Tim has seen that....oh heck Art knows it as well. Now he is driven...get Boyd and maybe save Ava from death....but not prison. She is the quarry of Avery and boone and of course Boyd.
Poor earl. Doubly poor Carl. He was too trusting..blindly trusting Boyd. And I no longer care if Boyd dies! He is truly cold blooded killer...no remorse!
Two more to go....and I truly fear most for Raylan....thing worse than death. Or Art truly putting him....48 hours!!!!
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Post by siss13 on Apr 1, 2015 14:26:19 GMT -6
Rachel needed to be demoted! She pushed Raylan along with Vasquez and they are why this case blew up. Raylan was working it their way...slow and steady his way works better. Rachel knows that. Tim has seen that....oh heck Art knows it as well. Now he is driven...get Boyd and maybe save Ava from death....but not prison. She is the quarry of Avery and boone and of course Boyd. You are too funny. Everyone is at fault for Raylan's actions except Raylan? Raylan is not some poor Marshal who was bullied into staying and trying to get Boyd. He was happy to stay and bring down his supposed nemesis. I think guilt plays a big part in Raylan's actions now. He knew Ava would screw things up.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 1, 2015 14:39:31 GMT -6
Yeah I do know! He has his way and as early as episode one when he went to see Art he was already having the need to do it his way. But he was there to get mentored by the one person he trusts and more...respects. I know I have blind loyalty to Raylan. Just find him so exciting. Amuses me that timothy puts Raylan down...I have more affection than the actor who brought Raylan to life.
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Post by justifiedceo on Apr 1, 2015 15:51:47 GMT -6
Ripe,
I think the actor doesn't like Rylan. I know he has a real problem with gun play. He has been consistent on that point.
Putting myself in TO's shoes, I would want the character killed off. He doesn't want to be type-casted. And a Rylan that makes it out alive is not good for his career.
I am sure all of this is going to come out as a creative/"suits" clash. FX and Yost have to have the right ending for the fans and syndication/downloads/DVDs ... while TO was bought off by being named a producer - who gets royalties - it's an income stream but the potential to lose work in his later years.
How will the show end? You will know by the ending. Either TO or GY/FX won or lost.
JC
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 1, 2015 15:55:05 GMT -6
Rachel needed to be demoted! She pushed Raylan along with Vasquez and they are why this case blew up. Raylan was working it their way...slow and steady his way works better. Rachel knows that. Tim has seen that....oh heck Art knows it as well. Now he is driven...get Boyd and maybe save Ava from death....but not prison. She is the quarry of Avery and boone and of course Boyd. You are too funny. Everyone is at fault for Raylan's actions except Raylan? Raylan is not some poor Marshal who was bullied into staying and trying to get Boyd. He was happy to stay and bring down his supposed nemesis. I think guilt plays a big part in Raylan's actions now. He knew Ava would screw things up. I'm with you, here, siss13. Not only did he know she might falter in her role as CI, but he carries the guilt from their original ill-fated relationship. Ava is his responsibility. At the moment, that makes him a good man, but a bad Marshal. Raylan is Raylan. TO is right about him. He's an asshole. I love him, don't get me wrong, but he's the last person I would want working for me or with me. Yes, his instincts are good -supernaturally good - but that doesn't make up for his lack of attention to the rules that the rest of us have to follow. And unfortunately, neither does the fact that he's sex-on-a-stick. And 'book, in S1 Raylan wasn't there to be 'mentored' by Art, and Art wasn't welcoming him with open arms. Raylan was sent there as discipline for shooting Tommy Bucks. He and Art have affection for one another. They have a past together at Glynco. But Raylan never considers that when he goes against Art's wishes and does things his own damn way. He only considers it when it looks like Art isn't going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Raylan is only still a marshal because he gets his man, usually. This time, he might be pushing it too far. Art's 48 hours is very generous. Here's the thing...with Raylan's talents and drive, he could've been Art's replacement, or Dan's. But his stubborn refusal to walk the path everyone else walks may just end his career instead. I'm not sure that's What Elmore Would Do, but it seems to be the direction the show is heading. Depending on how it plays out, I could be okay with that. JCEO, I agree that the 'dirty-marshal' thing is a plot device, and it's easy to make Vasquez the asshole. I'm glad that role didn't fall to Art. I think there's a fourth possibility to the arc of the show. It's about a good man who could't quite overcome his demons. A man who is out of his time - a modern cowboy, dealing out his version of justice. I could see Raylan in Florida with Winona and Willa, but out of the Marshals, maybe working as a PI or bounty hunter. And I think that could be in keeping with Elmore's world. But I think it's more likely that none of us have even touched on how this whole thing is going to end. This season the writers have proven that their ideas are beyond anything we mere mortals could think of.
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Post by wkw99 on Apr 1, 2015 16:00:33 GMT -6
Ripe, I think the actor doesn't like Rylan. I know he has a real problem with gun play. He has been consistent on that point. Putting myself in TO's shoes, I would want the character killed off. He doesn't want to be type-casted. And a Rylan that makes it out alive is not good for his career. I am sure all of this is going to come out as a creative/"suits" clash. FX and Yost have to have the right ending for the fans and syndication/downloads/DVDs ... while TO was bought off by being named a producer - who gets royalties - it's an income stream but the potential to lose work in his later years. How will the show end? You will know by the ending. Either TO or GY/FX won or lost. JC TO made a statement early in the season when asked about the ending of the show - something about how he thought he knew what was going to happen, but then Yost balked. I think the ending had yet to be written at the point...so who knows? But in the radio interview Yost did recently (I think there's a link on here in the Trust thread) he said that he's always felt Justified was - at its heart -'fun'. A fun show does not kill off it's protagonist, no matter how much the actor may want it. It's an iconic role, but give TO a couple of guest stints like the one he did on The Mindy Project, and he'll break right out of that mold. He's very different than Raylan.
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Post by ripetebook on Apr 1, 2015 16:17:13 GMT -6
The mentoring happened in season six in two episodes. Raylan made two home visits to Art and was more open than ever.
And timothy has said after deadwood and justified being typecast as a lawman...an actor could do much worse! He has made a joke that one bullet goes thru both Boyd and Raylan.
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