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Post by ripetebook on Mar 26, 2015 12:05:34 GMT -6
Didn't Boyd promise Limehouse he would leave Harlan forever! Staying to track down Ava could add a nail to Boyd's coffin. Stealing Boyd's dreams and money surely puts a nail in ava' s coffin....lots of coffins...lots of money...lots of twists...and lots of fun for the true fans! Who has the money? How will anyone escape Harlan? Just so much to think on...heck Boone and his plans for Loretta? Avery and Katherine? Wynn and Mikey with a side of Katherine? Art and the killer of Simon Poole? Omg what a great season!!!!
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Post by siss13 on Mar 26, 2015 12:57:38 GMT -6
All, Rylan said "Jesus women, what did you do?". He asked it like he asked Mags "Mags, what did you do" in S213. He is not turned on. He was surprised in both cases. And his tone and words were both the same and had the same meaning: feeling empathy.JC Quote from Joelle: After reading Joelle's quote above, I assume she's probably theorizing on what her character might have been thinking about Raylan. Ava did say something like, you always wanted to see Boyd bleeding at your feet(Not verbatim). Since she started the sentence with "I think," my guess is that's just her opinion and nothing more. But I do try to remember that the actors know a lot more than what the viewers see during the final cut of a scene. Perhaps the director's notes or script led her down that thought path. GY said they played with different options for that scene. I believe he said they cut out the part where Raylan actually kneels down to check on Boyd. In my opinion, leaving that out made it seem that he might have been a little turned on by Boyd bleeding at his feet. I did not see much empathy at all. Yes, Boyd promised to leave and never come back. But he has to get out of Harlan first. And all the nails are pretty much in Boyd's coffin. Limehouse can keep his nails in his pocket, he's probably at the bottom of Boyd's problems list.
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 26, 2015 13:14:24 GMT -6
All, I don't know if it's being in a foreign country ... but JCEO doesn't appear to be adding any value lately JC
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 26, 2015 15:27:28 GMT -6
I am saying Limehouse is a threat to both Boyd and Ava. Not that Boyd will have Limehouse on his list of enemies. And my bet is still Carl!!! If he realizes Boyd set him and earl up as bait...then their "get out of jail card" is sell Boyd out for the murder! No Rico case needed! Murder will trump Rico...put Boyd in prison for at least 25 years. Yost hinted the they are not done with Dewey!!!! It would be so like this show...scene from the first episode of the season impacts the finale. Think bulletville and tommy buck!
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Post by mare27 on Mar 26, 2015 22:17:19 GMT -6
All, I don't know if it's being in a foreign country ... but JCEO doesn't appear to be adding any value lately JC I'm sure you have a lot on your plate, having traveled to London...you'll catch up!
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 27, 2015 11:55:31 GMT -6
We seem to have a variety of feelings as to who has the actual ten mil? Avery...Ava...Boyd...or someone else...like Limehouse. I will start the vote. Boyd never trusts so he planned the drop and where to join avaand he his the cash before meeting Ava. So boydhas the money...but a good twist... While he is recovering some one else will find it. My brother thinks Loretta will end the series with all the land and all the money! Voting time? ?
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Post by siss13 on Mar 27, 2015 14:43:05 GMT -6
My vote is Boyd. I also think he hid the money. If not all of it, certainly enough to get out of Harlan and start a new life. He might have left some in the truck as a cover. Although, my gut tells me there's another twist coming next week.
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Post by mondayschild on Mar 27, 2015 20:49:03 GMT -6
I have to confer with the above. But I still don't trust that Avery ever turned over all of the real money.Boyd didn't examine it all that carefully. Ah, the games they play with us!
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 28, 2015 4:00:57 GMT -6
Of course my vote is different and probably wrong.
I don't think Markham's bags were totally filled with money. If this is true, there is no way Boyd knew that when he met Ava. If he knew he was ripped off, he would not have gone to Ava in such a good mood. He couldn't have hid the money before meeting Ava, because he would have found out he got ripped off by Markham.
Leaving Ava escaping with less money than she thought. Leaving Boyd chasing Ava to pursue less money than she thought. Leaving Art to eventually believe that Rylan stole it.
Leaving Markham, Duffy and Katherine enough plot time to fight over 90% of the money.
All ending in Loretta and perhaps Limehouse having the cash at the end.
JC
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Post by wkw99 on Mar 28, 2015 6:03:14 GMT -6
I like your theory, JCEO, but as much as Art bemoans Raylan's actions at times, I don't think he would believe him a thief.
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 28, 2015 8:53:25 GMT -6
WKW,
I meant there was to be a moment of suspicion with either Art or his fellow team. IF ......my theory is correct, and only if.
Playing it out. Hear me out. At some point every one is going to know Ava doesn't have all the money. Person by person.
Everyone is going to know Rylan let her go. Vasquez and the Marshals know Rylan is not long for Kentucky. Just a plot device to kill sometime in last 3 episodes.
Isn't that more interesting than finding Ava for three weeks and someone spilling on Boyd?
Classic caper theme. No one knows what everyone did. Some on this board thinks Boyd has the money. Than why does he chase Ava. Revenge? He has enough money to escape. Or she has it or he thinks she has it; more likely. Heretofore if Ava doesn't have it and Boyd doesn't have it. Then Rylan become a temporary suspicion to fill time.
HAVING SAID THAT. There is still a chance that another theory of mine is at play. Namely the FEDS want both Boyd and Rylan. Catching Boyd in a RICO. And/or catching Rylan shoot Boyd because he is the one kill - most tempting - that might not be Justified. Boyd's sentence? Jail. Rylan? Kicked off being a Marshals. THIS THEORY THOUGH WOULD STICK.
It all gets back to what is the show trying to say by the end?
1. Rylan's redemption narrative - one I (JCEO) won't bother writing again. 2. Marshals get killed in the line of duty and this pays homage to heroes that die? 3. The world is corrupt enough that someone like Boyd doesn't pay for his sins? 4. The criminal justice system is corrupt enough to take a CI and put her into jail after putting her life on the line. 5. Marshal's have to do things by the book, and Rylan doesn't... so he has to be fired. That "file" on Boyd? Well Vazquez has a "file on Rylan.
Obviously I think and am invested into #1. And I think to abandon it after 5 plus seasons is pointless.
#2 is sad, but doesn't take away Rylan being a hero.
#3 is insulting
#4 is realistic
$5 plausible but duplicitous. Miami and Dan want him. He has been treated with little respect since he came to the KY office. Art - while a funny mentor - has never been comfortable with Rylan. Vasquez is a little shit. Rachel running around being the boss? Makes me cringe (and that has nothing to do with race); she is green and she just has the same level of contempt as Art and Vasquez. Tim comes the closest to getting Rylan, but he still makes fun of him, Why? Because during the pre-Justified timeframe he was the "bad boy" And during Justified time, Rylan allows Tim to have two "bad boys" or to make the not the worst office's bad boy
In every season, in every "case"; Rylan is better than anyone else. But gets zero respect. Is he flawed? Yes. Can he be a big jerk? Very much so. But to use his good points ... then treat him like shit ... it goes against my nerves.
JC
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Post by mare27 on Mar 28, 2015 9:26:28 GMT -6
I like your theory, JCEO, but as much as Art bemoans Raylan's actions at times, I don't think he would believe him a thief. I agree with you...I can't see why Art would suspect Raylan.
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Post by mare27 on Mar 28, 2015 9:36:54 GMT -6
Of course my vote is different and probably wrong. I don't think Markham's bags were totally filled with money. If this is true, there is no way Boyd knew that when he met Ava. If he knew he was ripped off, he would not have gone to Ava in such a good mood. He couldn't have hid the money before meeting Ava, because he would have found out he got ripped off by Markham. Leaving Ava escaping with less money than she thought. Leaving Boyd chasing Ava to pursue less money than she thought. Leaving Art to eventually believe that Rylan stole it. Leaving Markham, Duffy and Katherine enough plot time to fight over 90% of the money. All ending in Loretta and perhaps Limehouse having the cash at the end. JC This is what I said...I don't think the bags were full of cash...Boyd did not stop on his way to Ava...so Boyd thinks Ava has the money...Ava finds she does not have it...but she does not know if Boyd pulled a switch, or if Avery was behind it. She will assume Boyd hid it, IMO. I don't see Art suspecting Raylan... Somehow I too think Loretta and Limehouse will be a part of the puzzle.
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 28, 2015 11:41:40 GMT -6
Sometimes I find tablets to be beyond frustrating!!!!!!
Boyd has spent an excessive amount of energy testing Ava and as we all saw...she truly failed! But he was ready. He picked all the places and in doing so...had a place to bury his money. Avery made it clear...he was doing everything Boyd demanded to save his beloved Katherine. And now he will be driven more by the need to punish Ava than get his money and leave Harlan alive. She alone knows Boyd has the money...and he lived! She knows he will be coming for her! And then we have Raylan. He knows Boyd lived and wants revenge. Raylan being our Raylan will feel he must bring her in alive...safe from Boyd.
That is how I see the three Harlan kids.
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 28, 2015 12:41:19 GMT -6
Here is what I know fellow Justified friends. Odds of any of us being right: zero percent.
I have had a theory about the Justified writers for some time. And it goes something like this: every NFL football team has their own scout to let the team know about how predictable they are.
I think the first thing the writers do, is to go through what they think all non-professional writers theories (not just us but everyone that watches the show) are and go where no one sees it coming.
Do you know when I get my best clue that I am wrong and begin to understand what is going to happen? At the beginning of the episode showing past scenes. It basically is the primer for the episode and it grounds the audience, how something in the past (not made up), is going to influence the episodes plot.
JC
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 28, 2015 15:53:31 GMT -6
I also think that we are not done with Carl and brother earl! Every henchman that ever worked for Boyd got dead or whatever. But Carl holds Boyd's slimy life in his hands. He and he alone is witness and in jail to the murders of a crowder and a crowe! And desires for freedom...he knows of federals...namely Raylan Givens!!!! Bet before we heat "you'll never leave Harlan alive" Carl will be a rat on Boyd.
Also the lyrics of the song...basically a loved one to walk me out of the holler or I won't leave Harlan alive....winona will walk Raylan out while Boyd and Ava will not save each other!
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 28, 2015 16:53:47 GMT -6
Ripe,
1. You are right. I wrote about the lyrics of the "full" song. There is an escape clause. 2. Carl makes sense. He is the smartest and level-headed of Boyd's long list of henchman. 3. Reasons against the Carl angle: (a) Boyd saved his life in the mine and (b) Carl has been such a minor character that doesn't have the impact when viewed by the end and when history looks at the show. 4. They pick up Carl. But they don't have anything on him. Am I missing something?
JC
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Post by siss13 on Mar 28, 2015 17:22:46 GMT -6
I like your theory, JCEO, but as much as Art bemoans Raylan's actions at times, I don't think he would believe him a thief. I agree with you...I can't see why Art would suspect Raylan. I have to co-sign that sentiment. I'm trying to think of a logical reason Art would suspect Raylan and can't come up with one. Unless the writers were going to revisit season two, using the missing evidence money Winona stole and Raylan covered up as a reason for Art to suspect Raylan in any kind of missing money mishap. But, I don't think so. If Vasquez was looking for a reason to bring down Raylan, he'd start with the Tarmac incident. That would make more sense to me. I don't think Vasquez is after Raylan, though. After watching Trust a third time, I do find it strange that Raylan didn't at least try to shoot out the tires on the truck Ava escaped in. He's a good shot, he could have stopped her without killing her. Disabling the truck would have slowed her down a bit, if not thwarted her escape. So, I can see Vasquez being a bit suspicious about Raylan letting Ava get away. Probably in his mind, Raylan would have put anyone else in that position down.
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 28, 2015 17:58:37 GMT -6
"Trust" was a show about men (a) who discount the better gender and (b) how women exploit that advantage.
Markham didn't see KH coming (most certainly at the diner at the beginning). Boyd didn't see Ava coming. And Rylan - while suspicious - still cares enough about Ava (not being in love, but being sympathetic) that it SEEMS to cloud his judgment.
Friends: we have three episodes to go. Any suspicion of RG is filler. And "Trust" added a little to that end. RG is going to get questioned, because of Ava getting away. Some may fan the fire of RG being complicate. Just filler.
Returning to my, RG as a hero and a omniscient theme, RG sees the advantage of Ava's acts. He knows Ava on the run, with just a wounded Boyd, allows him to fill in the dots to win, instead of shutting the conspiracy down.
Stopping Ava after she wounds Boyd doesn't advance the cause. But Ava running and Boyd chasing her does.
This show's kernel is RG knowing how to play hillbillies. He is always right. Any dispersions are only temporal
Doubters are only there to highlight why he is always right.
JC
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 28, 2015 19:49:47 GMT -6
Back to Carl! He and earl are in jail and that is strictly caused by Boyd. Negates the saved him in the mine! Sell Boyd out and get out of jail!
Raylan did not shoot because they would have no way to get help for Boyd and we do not know the extent of the injury. Raylan as a marshal would not let Boyd just bleed to death. And there may be a part of Raylan that feels some blame for the mess she is in.he has no idea that Boyd will be fine and go after Ava. Does not know she has no money and..no real chance of escape. He is still Raylan...rescuer of damsels in distress.
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Post by siss13 on Mar 29, 2015 0:06:00 GMT -6
Back to Carl! He and earl are in jail and that is strictly caused by Boyd. Negates the saved him in the mine! Sell Boyd out and get out of jail! Raylan did not shoot because they would have no way to get help for Boyd and we do not know the extent of the injury. Raylan as a marshal would not let Boyd just bleed to death. And there may be a part of Raylan that feels some blame for the mess she is in.he has no idea that Boyd will be fine and go after Ava. Does not know she has no money and..no real chance of escape. He is still Raylan...rescuer of damsels in distress He could have used his cell phone to get help for Boyd once he disabled the truck. I'm sure he called for help and backup after Ava took off,since Boyd will be in hospital next week.
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 29, 2015 7:23:44 GMT -6
Respectfully,
I can only see the Carl angle playing one way. They don't have anything on Carl.
But they do have a "Dewey-like" story to tell him.
"Carl, remember when you allegedly helped Boyd divert us using Dewey to rob the bank?"
"Well perhaps you would like to know, that he used you the same way, and hit Avery's money at the state border".
"Don't you see, that anyone that has ever worked with Boyd is in jail or dead?"
"We know Boyd killed Dewey. Take us to the body and get blanket immunity".
Carl's logical response? If they don't have anything that sticks, he tells them off, and seeks revenge for him and his brother.
CARL being able to FINGER Boyd in E11 wouldn't allow BOYD to GET OUT of the hospital in E11.
JC
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 29, 2015 8:58:34 GMT -6
From all I read Boyd isn't released so much as escapes! Boyd has the need for vengeance on Ava and maybe Zach and if my guess is right the need to get his money and get the heck out of Harlan. And you define the scenario of Carl perfectly and it could come in E13. At some point Raylan will get to go after Boyd. Maybe? ?
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 29, 2015 10:03:25 GMT -6
You know the shame of all this. Really. Is in three weeks ... there will be nothing to talk about.
I promised myself that I would enjoy each and every week. But alas, I keep wanting the next Tuesday to come faster.
And it has moved faster than I thought. I am trying to enjoy the next three weeks. But I know a big piece of me, after we debate the finale, will be gone.
MY ONLY WISH IS THE ENDING, IS LOGICAL, So I can watch it many times from S1 to S13.
JC
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 29, 2015 10:12:57 GMT -6
oops meant S1 to S6 JC
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