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Post by ripetebook on Mar 24, 2015 13:02:26 GMT -6
The spoiler says Raylan pressures his informants...meaning Ava and Wynn I assume.then it says his actions endanger the careers of all the Lexington marshals. So my question....what could pressure mean? My fear pushing Ava brings about the violence in Boyd...meaning he kills her...death of his CI would mean his career...or...does it mean a marshal dies...thinking poor nelson could die? Just a thought!!!!
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 24, 2015 21:31:17 GMT -6
I will discuss this one later. What gave me dread were the previews...for next week. Is Art threatening Raylan? Like he is the one shot Boyd? Seriously those previews shocked me...as much as the last two minutes of Trust. OMG what a shocking episode!!!!!!
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Post by mondayschild on Mar 24, 2015 21:54:57 GMT -6
I posted on this ep. at exdusm's post for "Burned." She gives a great description of the anti-hero and the problems facing Raylan. Everyone should read what she has to say, if for no other reason that she is an exdusm. She has "been there, done that."
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Post by mare27 on Mar 24, 2015 22:40:39 GMT -6
The spoiler says Raylan pressures his informants...meaning Ava and Wynn I assume.then it says his actions endanger the careers of all the Lexington marshals. So my question....what could pressure mean? My fear pushing Ava brings about the violence in Boyd...meaning he kills her...death of his CI would mean his career...or...does it mean a marshal dies...thinking poor nelson could die? Just a thought!!!! OMG, what an episode! I have to do some thinking about it and will write later... Trust, it was called, but it seems that no one can trust anyone at all...betrayal all around! I can't believe it is almost all over. |
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 25, 2015 0:40:01 GMT -6
Where to begin? Vasquez has a hard on to hurt Ava and by extension Raylan. I do not agree with Raylan being tough on Ava. He went to her in prison and offered her deals prior to getting her out as a CI and she blew him off. In addition she has pulled a gun on him several times!
Now to Trust! Wynn and Mikey shocked me! Wynn is a rat and his cockroach days are shakey at best! Not just a rat but he made Mikey watch As he screwed with all he made Mikey witness to all. And Mikey has his code.
As to Avery and Katherine...they deserve each other and whatever happens...so be it.
Boon just scares me..now more than ever! Yost makes it clear... There is not the big showdown but the who gets Ava first! They blew me away...the misdirect was so well done. Brilliant and so much more!
And if we can travel back..to the kidney episode...when he shot the nurse..we all wondered if one day he would shoot Ava? Omg he just may have to.
Looking forward to what you think.
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Post by wkw99 on Mar 25, 2015 4:59:31 GMT -6
Ripetebook, I see you have your Rose-colored-Raylan glasses on. LOL.  It's okay, we know he can do no wrong in your eyes, but, in all honesty, even HE knows he's been rough on Ava. Now, his roughness was for a purpose - likely a two-fold purpose. One, he wants to get Boyd. Wants it with every fiber of his being. Two, on some level, he likely knew that Vasquez was going to be a stickler for the details, and Raylan wanted to be sure Ava got it right and got out. He cares about her on some level. But there's no denying he's been an asshole to her. This episode...WOW. This is exactly What Elmore Would Do. I still need to process (i.e. watch again) but I can't wait to see what happens on so many levels. Mikey! Irony...Boyd's last shout out to Markham, chuckling over the fact that Markham's love, Kathryn was betraying him, then whooping off to meet Ava and be betrayed himself. Wow. What excellent writing. Boon scares the shit out of me. Yost's post-mortem: www.yahoo.com/tv/justified-trust-recap-postmortem-graham-yost-114532782635.htmlAnd...reviews www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-justified-trust-inside-maam/www.avclub.com/tvclub/justified-trust-217041wegotthiscovered.com/tv/justified-review-trust-season-6-episode-10/ |
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 25, 2015 5:48:11 GMT -6
All,
More on this later today.
1. The spoiler didn't lead up to it's lofty statements.
2. Obviously trust was the right theme. But it was males trusting in women - that got them into trouble - that I found most interesting. Avery finding out his love Katherine was not trustful. Ava had two broaches of trust. Rylan and Boyd. ALL of the males were blinded by (a) their fondness for women and (b) them underestimating the better gender is as smart or smarter than them.
3. Boyd is so alive ... that next week he is up and about, out of the hospital, out of jail?
4. How can Rylan be in trouble? He went to witness a crime. The bad guy was shot by his girl. If they tell me that he should have shot her ... (a) duplicitous and (b) he already knows her new name.
5. I was wrong about so much. But Limehouse wasn't one of them. His "safe passage was IDs for Boyd and Ava.
6. RICO case is lost.
7. I have no earthly idea how they are going to fill 3 more episodes. Boyd has been shot ... again. Can't do that a third time. Me thinks this is all about Rylan sticking around too long because he wants to be a part of the fugitive hunt. Putting his life into jeopardy. In theory probably. To keep the tension definitely. With his mortality being still around at the end? IMHO all the tension is needed for the rest of the show and RG lives.
JC
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Post by siss13 on Mar 25, 2015 7:22:19 GMT -6
Ha! Someone has tried to kill Boyd three times so far this season, to no avail. If he's going to die at the end, they better find a creative way to do it. Since bullets and exploding mine shafts don't work.
My guess, Boyd was wearing a bullet proof vest and will be dealing with couple of broken ribs. Hell, Ava shot him point blank. But so did Raylan in the first season. How many lives does that man have left? **just read GY postmortem. No vest.**
I don't think he trusted Ava by the time he actually succeeded in robbing Avery. And I doubt he left that money in the truck. He probably hid it somewhere before he reached Ava. Don't think Ava's going to get far with no money. But her hand was forced, by Raylan and Boyd. Neither man lived up to his promise to protect her. Raylan's blinded by his obsession to get Boyd, at any cost. And Boyd is blinded by his obsession to gain money and power, at any cost. It's going to be a no-win situation for both, I believe.
This episode was so good. I was not surprised by Mikey's action. I really think he's smarter than Wynn thinks he is.
Favorite moments:
Every scene Walton was in. I'll say it like a mantra, over and over. Walton Is Amazing.
Mikey getting the best of Wynn. (Was that some kind of whipping device in Wynn's pocket??)
Boon is creepy. But his scenes were very interesting, and I like that they've added him on at the end. He scares the crap out of me, too wkw99.
Going to watch again tonight.
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 25, 2015 8:39:01 GMT -6
The next week previews disturbed me and then I watched again plus!
Zachiriah with Ava...Boyd has the money and she is so screwed. Did she plan the money theft with her uncle? Was his alleged death upset her because of her plans? Glad he is alive!
Only Boyd knows he has the money...will the bad guys win? Then Boyd stuck it to Carl and Carl is his one and only witness to the murders of johnny crowder and Dewey crowe. And that could be his get out of jail card!!!!
Art says they are after Boyd...I am coming after you. My fear it was said to Raylan...rethought it is Avery and for the murder of Simon Poole! Art wants to finally close this one case!
And yes wkw99...Raylan will always be a hero. But I do see your point. The real prick in all this is Vasquez..can we agree on that? He put the nail in Ava's coffin!!!
What a season. What more do we need to say!!!!!!!
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Post by mare27 on Mar 25, 2015 9:26:16 GMT -6
The next week previews disturbed me and then I watched again plus! Zachiriah with Ava...Boyd has the money and she is so screwed. Did she plan the money theft with her uncle? Was his alleged death upset her because of her plans? Glad he is alive! Only Boyd knows he has the money...will the bad guys win? Then Boyd stuck it to Carl and Carl is his one and only witness to the murders of johnny crowder and Dewey crowe. And that could be his get out of jail card!!!! Art says they are after Boyd...I am coming after you. My fear it was said to Raylan...rethought it is Avery and for the murder of Simon Poole! Art wants to finally close this one case! And yes wkw99...Raylan will always be a hero. But I do see your point. The real prick in all this is Vasquez..can we agree on that? He put the nail in Ava's coffin!!! What a season. What more do we need to say!!!!!!! sorry, tried to post from my phone earlier...that didn't go well. I just watched again...I think I saw the bags of money were still in the truck bed...I didn't get the impression that Boyd hid them before coming to Ava...he was so excited, I think he just went straight to Ava...BUT, I do think maybe Avery did not fill those bags with money...maybe just enough on the top to make Boyd think they were full of $10 million dollars...maybe that's why he was smiling as Boyd drove away...? Carl in custody...could the story of Dewey's demise and Johnny's be the next chapter? Carl becomes key to getting Boyd. tells where Dewey's body is hidden? I think Vasquez is the prick at this point...Ava was giving Raylan info...although she was also giving Boyd info...She was trying to stay out of jail AND keep Boyd from killing her...Vasquez just throwing his weight around, cause he can...unfair to change the deal. Ava shooting Boyd like that, really shocked me...I think it was spontaneous, when she felt the gun in his waistband...what if he had left the gun in the truck when he went to hug her...then would she have gone with him, looking for another chance to hurt Boyd and get away? And Raylan...he could have shot her or the truck but he chose not to, is that why he would be in trouble with his bosses?...he does have some feelings for her and her situation, although I think now that she actually shot Boyd and ran, his sympathy is drying up and he will have to try to bring her in...I'm sure he does not want to shoot her, but she does not want to go back to jail, so she would probably rather be shot than go back... I hope Rachel sees now that Raylan was not only right, but he was not sleeping with Ava like Rachel suspected...he was doing his job. I agree Raylan is the hero and in the end will be proven to have grown and changed some...will get the bad guys in some satisfactory fashion and will be able to leave Kentucky for his family with a sense of accomplishment...He can't make everything right, but he'll get Boyd, as originally told by Elmore in the story. |
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Post by siss13 on Mar 25, 2015 12:31:26 GMT -6
The real prick in all this is Vasquez..can we agree on that? He put the nail in Ava's coffin!!! I think Raylan wins the prick prize. Raylan knew better than to use Ava as an CI. She was far too emotionally invested in Boyd and Raylan to be of any use in a RICO Case. Vasquez does not have a personal history with Ava, and there is no emotional attachment. But Raylan knows Ava very well, and there had once been an emotional and physical attachment. He had to know she would not cut it as his informant. He never really had a final say on whether she'd go back to prison. Vasquez always had that power. But Raylan made Ava believe he could do more for her than he really could do. Vasquez and Raylan should have chosen Wynn to be the CI from the start. I think Wynn would rat on his mother to stay out of prison. There are no tanning beds in prison, how on earth would he survive? |
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 25, 2015 12:43:01 GMT -6
They had no clue about Wynn..it was Art and that old file! And Vasquez never liked Raylan so of course anyone Raylan picked would fall under such scrutiny! Raylan saved Ava by taking her from prison! In case you all forgot she was hiding in solitary to avoid death...sure and certain death! No she wasn't ideal but she was Boyd's bedmate and had she been honest with Raylan...things might be different. She knew about the bank job and said nothing!!!! Boyd said he was coming into a large sum of money...and instead she mentioned buying an old pickup!!!!!! Is everyone gonna rag on Raylan? Like Ava is some sweet innocent?  ? Where are you CEO...need another Raylan fan!!!!! |
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 25, 2015 14:13:17 GMT -6
Here I am everyone.
It is 11:42 in London.
Rylan is a hero. A flawed hero, but a hero nonetheless.
His superiors and his enemies - only exist - to show what he is and isn't. I fully admit to seeing the show as RG-centric.
1. He is smarter than anyone.
2. He is more effective than anyone because he is creative.
3. Rylan's morality is binary. Case in point is Ava. Rylan warned her about Boyd. She went against his judgement. To a binary Rylan - even though he has twinges of feeling that Vasquez is being unfair - Ava made a decision to be a criminal. And Rylan may find that tragic; but after her actions last night ... any ambiguity that a binary Rylan has ... is gone. He is going to hunt her down.
4. What is heroic about RG, is that everyone thinks they know better than him. Someone has to be the biggest internal "pr*ck". Hence Vasquez. BUT IF YOU WATCHED CLOSELY, RACHEL FINALLY CAME TO AN UNDERSTANDING AND BEING IN DEFENSE OF RYLAN. I thought it was the most emotional and striking moment in Justified. Of all people, the under-utilized Rachel, spoke volumes of admitting Rylan is smart and to be trusted.
5. Rylan will be tested. Rylan will be in some kind of physical and job danger. BUT THE DYE HAS BEEN CAST. Everything has been set up for Rylan to win. Loving wife? Check. Daughter? Check. A more expansive life than Rachel or Tim? Check. Turning closer to his hero Art? Check.
Everything else is a distraction. Orbs, only present and revolving, to help compare and contrast the hero.
The show has never been about some kind of grand trio.
It has always been about RG and his path to redemption. About him riding on a whiter horse than he rode in on. That has been my often stated opinion
And nothing this season, and nothing this episode has dissuaded me to the contrary.
JC!
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Post by wkw99 on Mar 25, 2015 14:22:16 GMT -6
Vasquez isn't the bad guy here. He's probably the one who gave Art the old file. It's the only way he could've gotten it. If you read Yost's commentary he says that Vasquez and Raylan haven't been adversaries since season 1, and that they've actually worked together, which IS in Raylan's job description. But now, because of Ava, they're on opposite sides again.
'Book, we all love Raylan. You and I have gone around and around on this. I can love the man and still admit that he isn't perfect. He's not a traditional hero, but much more of the anti-hero Exudem describes in her post. Some of his issues are due to circumstances beyond his control and others are of his own making. What happened with Ava last night WAS Raylan's fault. I understand that he felt a sense of obligation in letting her know the deal was off, but he didn't stop to consider how desperate it would make her.
Of course Ava is responsible for her actions, but Raylan has had a hand in putting her in this situation.
I'm very anxious to see where all this goes, and reluctant to make any predictions. I will say two things...I don't think Markham is going to kill Kathryn outright. She might even get the drop on him. And, even though it looks bad, I'm still not convinced that Wynn Duffy isn't going to walk away. Oh, and one more thing, Art could just as easily be talking to Kathryn...she's the one he suspects of gunning down Poole.
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Post by siss13 on Mar 25, 2015 14:28:31 GMT -6
They had no clue about Wynn..it was Art and that old file! Wynn's history as an old CI did not matter in this case. He'd been involved in crimes in Harlan and working with Boyd for a while, long before anyone knew about his CI past. Wynn should have been their first choice, not Ava. Raylan used Ava, knowing she was desperate for a get out of jail free pass. He did not save her from prison. |
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Post by mare27 on Mar 25, 2015 18:14:54 GMT -6
Ripetebook, I see you have your Rose-colored-Raylan glasses on. LOL. It's okay, we know he can do no wrong in your eyes, but, in all honesty, even HE knows he's been rough on Ava. Now, his roughness was for a purpose - likely a two-fold purpose. One, he wants to get Boyd. Wants it with every fiber of his being. Two, on some level, he likely knew that Vasquez was going to be a stickler for the details, and Raylan wanted to be sure Ava got it right and got out. He cares about her on some level. But there's no denying he's been an asshole to her. This episode...WOW. This is exactly What Elmore Would Do. I still need to process (i.e. watch again) but I can't wait to see what happens on so many levels. Mikey! Irony...Boyd's last shout out to Markham, chuckling over the fact that Markham's love, Kathryn was betraying him, then whooping off to meet Ava and be betrayed himself. Wow. What excellent writing. Boon scares the shit out of me. Yost's post-mortem: www.yahoo.com/tv/justified-trust-recap-postmortem-graham-yost-114532782635.htmlAnd...reviews www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-justified-trust-inside-maam/www.avclub.com/tvclub/justified-trust-217041wegotthiscovered.com/tv/justified-review-trust-season-6-episode-10/especially liked the avclub article. Thanks for posting these. Boon also scares me...but I have to think he is there to create tension and Raylan will put him down at the proper time...I hope. I need to watch again too...and the preview, if it is up yet. |
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 25, 2015 18:36:50 GMT -6
I am amazed by how Ava basically missed the kill shot with Boyd. We know she can be a dead shot! Love (based on previews and guesses) that Boyd was all Boyd in hiding that money before meeting up with Ava. She likely did not think this latest run thru and if there is no real money and Boyd is alive and angry... She is in so deep. She burned Limehouse. She burned Raylan. And is a true fugitive. Could almost feel sorry for her...almost!!!
The next three and also last episodes are so promising...scary tense episodes.
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Post by mare27 on Mar 25, 2015 19:17:45 GMT -6
I am amazed by how Ava basically missed the kill shot with Boyd. We know she can be a dead shot! Love (based on previews and guesses) that Boyd was all Boyd in hiding that money before meeting up with Ava. She likely did not think this latest run thru and if there is no real money and Boyd is alive and angry... She is in so deep. She burned Limehouse. She burned Raylan. And is a true fugitive. Could almost feel sorry for her...almost!!! The next three and also last episodes are so promising...scary tense episodes.
my guess is that the 10 mill was not in those bags, maybe enough on top to convince Boyd it was there? Or maybe there is a tracking device inside...
from Ava's reaction in the preview, I think maybe it was a trick...no money or very little money...I don't think Boyd took the time to hide the treasure... I assume Boyd thinks Ava has the money. Avery may have pulled a fast one on Boyd.
He's no dummy, right?
and did she have a plan with her uncle...? hard to say.
and to someone else's post re Raylan being tough on Ava...
I think Raylan first tried to threaten her, when she was in jail, to get help against Boyd...then he tried to help her, but there wasn't much he could do, as Boyd made his own deal without including her. Then when Ava was out to be a snitch, Raylan was tough on her, to scare her into helping or going back...witness all the times he yelled at her that she wasn't giving them enough and was no good to them without info and would be sent back to prison...and yelling at her when she tried to run...he was doing his job and I guess he would be tough with any snitch...
I don't know if there was ever a "love" connection between them...Ava would have liked that, but she was a basket case when Raylan came back into her life and he eventually used her for some fun and distraction while waiting to be re-assigned outside of Kentucky...he broke it off with her when Boyd got out of jail in S1, but she continued to act as though he was her man and later accused him of cheating on her with Winona, when she and Raylan were done way before that. Raylan was not in love with her, but may have some affection for her from their pasts.
Now Ava is alone I think, her crazy uncle not withstanding, or maybe he is not crazy, maybe he's a damn genius...she shot Boyd, she screwed up Raylan's job, she drove off into the night with Boyd's truck, not the getaway vehicle Limehouse provided, new id and maybe with money, but where the hell can she hide when so many will be looking for her?...she cannot possibly get away, IMO.
I don't think Raylan's career should be in jeopardy...as he has said in the past "what I did made sense at the time."
I think now, he would rather catch her than kill her and maybe the same goes for Boyd...let's jail him rather than blow him away...
This is so good, what will we do in a month when it's all over?! |
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Post by mare27 on Mar 25, 2015 20:58:32 GMT -6
Ripetebook, I see you have your Rose-colored-Raylan glasses on. LOL. It's okay, we know he can do no wrong in your eyes, but, in all honesty, even HE knows he's been rough on Ava. Now, his roughness was for a purpose - likely a two-fold purpose. One, he wants to get Boyd. Wants it with every fiber of his being. Two, on some level, he likely knew that Vasquez was going to be a stickler for the details, and Raylan wanted to be sure Ava got it right and got out. He cares about her on some level. But there's no denying he's been an asshole to her. This episode...WOW. This is exactly What Elmore Would Do. I still need to process (i.e. watch again) but I can't wait to see what happens on so many levels. Mikey! Irony...Boyd's last shout out to Markham, chuckling over the fact that Markham's love, Kathryn was betraying him, then whooping off to meet Ava and be betrayed himself. Wow. What excellent writing. Boon scares the shit out of me. Yost's post-mortem: www.yahoo.com/tv/justified-trust-recap-postmortem-graham-yost-114532782635.htmlAnd...reviews www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-justified-trust-inside-maam/www.avclub.com/tvclub/justified-trust-217041wegotthiscovered.com/tv/justified-review-trust-season-6-episode-10/especially liked the avclub article. Thanks for posting these. Boon also scares me...but I have to think he is there to create tension and Raylan will put him down at the proper time...I hope. I need to watch again too...and the preview, if it is up yet.
I thought that was a little bizarre...Turned on would be about the last reaction I would expect Raylan to have, given the situation and the gunplay.
Comments anybody?...
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Post by ripetebook on Mar 25, 2015 23:25:12 GMT -6
Loved your post! I agree 100% about Raylan and Ava! It was never love but he cared and even tried to protect her. When she let Boyd move in he warned her but Ava being Ava she just spit on his advice because she harbored anger at his loving Winona...which he never denied and never sought! Winona made the moves on him and the man loved her..what else could he do? Heart wants what the heart wants!
I do disagree on one point! Boyd wants revenge and in his world that means death. Ava better not turn her back on Boyd! Bigger fear...Raylan may be forced to put fugitive number one down. Ava is in such danger. And sadly she brought it all on herself.
You think Avery kept the money? I think Boyd picked the site knowing a place to switch cash for bricks so the bags were weighted. He saw cash from Avery. But no one checked the bags after he drove away!!!!
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 25, 2015 23:41:13 GMT -6
As to the bags weight - did anyone else notice that the weight of the bags shook Boyd's truck? If there are bricks Markham did it. He figured that Boyd would be too jacked up about the money he would be careless about digging deeper into the bag. Next, Boyd picked the money drop off, with misdirection to Katherine and Duffy, and on side roads he only knew and relayed to Markham. If Markham fooled Boyd ... in no way, would he have been as elated as he was, when he met his "woman". And if he switched money for bricks - after leaving Markham and going to meet Ava - he would have known he was fooled by Markham. Leaving (a) Ava will a lot less money, (b) Boyd chasing less money and (c) Markham being able to tell Katherine, Duffy and police/marshals Boyd stole all his money. Cheery o Justified friends from a mile from Buckingham palace  JC |
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Post by wkw99 on Mar 26, 2015 4:19:54 GMT -6
especially liked the avclub article. Thanks for posting these. Boon also scares me...but I have to think he is there to create tension and Raylan will put him down at the proper time...I hope. I need to watch again too...and the preview, if it is up yet.
I thought that was a little bizarre...Turned on would be about the last reaction I would expect Raylan to have, given the situation and the gunplay.
Comments anybody?...
Hmmmm. OK. I read the article, and I remember the look on Raylan's face was like "Goddamn, Woman, you did it." I think Ava surprised him, and for a man like Raylan to be surprised has to be a bit of a turn on. That's not to say he's going to ditch Winona, Willa, and his job and run off with Ava. (although at this point, nothing they did would surprise me). As much as I love this season, and I do, I guess I wish it was less about Ava and more about Raylan. |
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Post by mare27 on Mar 26, 2015 7:00:26 GMT -6
Loved your post! I agree 100% about Raylan and Ava! It was never love but he cared and even tried to protect her. When she let Boyd move in he warned her but Ava being Ava she just spit on his advice because she harbored anger at his loving Winona...which he never denied and never sought! Winona made the moves on him and the man loved her..what else could he do? Heart wants what the heart wants! I do disagree on one point! Boyd wants revenge and in his world that means death. Ava better not turn her back on Boyd! Bigger fear...Raylan may be forced to put fugitive number one down. Ava is in such danger. And sadly she brought it all on herself. You think Avery kept the money? I think Boyd picked the site knowing a place to switch cash for bricks so the bags were weighted. He saw cash from Avery. But no one checked the bags after he drove away!!!! I may be wrong about Avery and the money, but something is going to surprise us about the bags of money... Ava should be very worried about her future... |
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Post by siss13 on Mar 26, 2015 7:19:04 GMT -6
In my mind, I think there is no way Ava is getting away, money or no money. But I'm still wondering about Grubes, the guy who gets people away over the mountains. What part is he going to play in all of this? Will he be helping Ava or Boyd? So many questions. The writers have surprised me. It's getting really hard to try and predict what's going to happen.
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Post by justifiedceo on Mar 26, 2015 11:05:38 GMT -6
All,
Rylan said "Jesus women, what did you do?". He asked it like he asked Mags "Mags, what did you do" in S213. He is not turned on. He was surprised in both cases. And his tone and words were both the same and had the same meaning: feeling empathy.
JC
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It's okay, we know he can do no wrong in your eyes, but, in all honesty, even HE knows he's been rough on Ava. Now, his roughness was for a purpose - likely a two-fold purpose. One, he wants to get Boyd. Wants it with every fiber of his being. Two, on some level, he likely knew that Vasquez was going to be a stickler for the details, and Raylan wanted to be sure Ava got it right and got out. He cares about her on some level. But there's no denying he's been an asshole to her. 
?