"consider the ladies"

[bookperson39]

A thought just occured to me as I rethought about my post on the order in which I like the Justified seasons.

Season 2 which many people name as their first favorite was full of strong, interesting women. Mags of course. One could say her behavior and ideas were almost "mannish" but she had great mother love (if sometimes a bit "tough") for her three useless boys. She loved Loretta and wanted something better for her and maybe Loretta represented a second chance for Mags as a mother. The girl herself was a great and strong character. A young lady with a very strong bullshit detector who kept her silence but watched out for herself. Then, there's the much-maligned Winona who brought us one dramatic-comic arc (the money) and one tender arc ( li'l Jiffy Pop).

Carol, who represented the mining company was not very sympathic but she was certainly a woman and certainly strong. She had the men "going" there for a while. Also Helen, who exited too early but with whom we could share a love and concern for Raylan. We can't forget Rachel, who had more story and screen time last year. We don't know a lot about her but we know she loves her family and she is at least "concerned" Raylan, Tim and Art. These gals all brought color and warmth to a great year.

As a contrast, what did we have this season? Lots and lots of mean, scruffy thugs, drug dealers, organized crime goons, all played by good actors, many of whom were whisked on and off our screen with hardly a hello or goodbye. No Mags. We're reminded of her with the constant talk of her money and pleased with her legacy to Loretta, but she's gone. Helen's gone but "gets" to make a few appearances as a nagging ghost. The writers let some of us get all glowy and dewy about the baby, even giving our hero a sonogram to cherish and then they took Winona away. It used to be fun to see this couple as they fussed at each other but always wound up in the bed at the motel. Now every (infrequent) encounter is filled with tension.

Notice I didn't mention Ava. Unlike most of the fans, I am not a real Ava supporter but I think she fits into my thesis (LOL) somewhere because she is becoming tougher and harder and more mannish, if you will, as he relationship with Boyd makes her tougher and brings her into his sad world.

Any thoughts on this. I understand they don't want to make every season alike and I did enjoy most of this season very much. I'm writing it very early in the morning and I know there are holes in the idea, but it popped into my head and I wanted to see if anyone else noticed this or if I should have my Jusified videos removed from my home and be sentenced to watch all of the seasons of "Two and a Half Men".

[lovejustified]

Well said, book. I agree.

[mondayschild]

All opinions are welcome, book. I see where you are coming from. As to being sentenced to watching "Two and a Half Men?" Nothing any of us could ever say would merit that kind of punishment! Carry on.

[wkw99]

I read in a recent article that there were several new writers this season and the plan was to bring back a couple from S2 for next year, but I'm not sure if thsts fact or not.

I agree that the women were stronger in season 2, and I'm on record as hating what they did to Winona AND Ava this season so....

[weegieburd]

I agree, I did love this season and thought the writing was very strong but....the female influence was absent, it was a gritty male orientated season in which all we had to placate us was Tim's beautiful body. I don't like that they removed the banter between Raylan and Winona and I really don't like that they have made Ava hard and no better than the pimp she killed. But I will continue to watch and re-watch every episode ad nauseam and you will NOT persuade me that I should be watching Two And A Half Men! LOL
We are only up to episode 3 in the UK so I still have 10 episodes to go.

[bookperson39]

Sorry, weegie! Hope I didn't give too many spoilers! I will ALWAYS watch Justified no matter what crazy thing they come up with and I DID like this last season....TO, Elmore Leonard, a sterling cast....what's not to like?? I just thought it lacked some of the warmth (if I can use that word LOL) of the first two seasons. Maybe it was meant to, but just missed the little sparkles.

I have tons of Russell Crowe pals from England. Where are you from?

[weegieburd]

I'm from Glasgow...Weegie is short for Glaswegian LOL. Don't worry you didn't give anything away I have been watching episodes online, I couldn't bear NOT to know what was happening in Harlan County, but I will watch it again and again and again....and then I'll buy the DVD LOL

[bookperson39]

I think you told me that before. I loved Glasgow when we were there. One of my UK friends lives between Glasgow and Edinburgh in Susan Boyle country. LOL We met her and her roommate in the old area of Edinburgh for a four-person pub crawl.

[weegieburd]

There are some great pubs to crawl around in that area.....I've done that once or twice myself....funnily enough with American friends! LOL

[motorcitymade]

Total agreement. LOATH what they did to smart but sweet and sassy (but sometimes confused) Winona. I felt like I got dumped ! They turned her on a dime- I know, I know the signs were there; but I'll never forgive them for the 3 line note. Women just don't walk away when they are pregnant. No way.

I was hoping they'd give them a season of happiness before she booted him with lots of uncertainty and tears. ( Natalie cries So well)

Ava; she could have been a good pimp. I thought she might teach the girls to read and get their GEDs and nurse them through cold turkey...but she turns into a abuser. Wow. DO NOT LIKE!

I think Nichelle Tramble did a good job with Nobles Hollar- but at the expense of every other story line.

The highlight of the season for me was seeing the subtle acting chops of Demetrius Grosse. He was a throw away character, and he was so good they kept giving him more and more to do. In the end he was more interesting for me than Limehouse. Maybe it's just because I was transfixed by his oral agility with that toothpick! LOL. He reminded me of Taureen black on Hill Street Blues with that damned lolly pop.

Watch for this guy's career to blossom. I hope he gets more than just bad ass black dude criminal roles.

[mondayschild]

I had a bit of sympathy for Erroll, and I think the actor portrayed this well. After all, Limehouse had known Errol since he was a child, but he is a man who puts the "holler" first, no exceptions.If you don't do what he says , it's expulsion or the vat of lye. Erroll had a certain allegiance to Limehouse, but it was almost a civil rights issue. Errol was chomping at the bit. He was trying to break out and be his own person.He wanted rights that were forbidden to him within the holler. He was tired of doing whatever Limehouse told him to do. He was trying to get ahead. I sympathized with this.

AND he did come back when he thought Limehouse was n danger, and he was shot because of it. I tend to stick up for people like this.

[wkw99]

I liked Errol, too. Most of the 'double cross' we saw him working was really Limehouse pulling strings behind the scenes. I think his 'expulsion' from the Holler was for getting Limehouse involved in all this shit in the first place, since Limehouse expressed his philosophy pretty clearly to Raylan "Not my people, not my problem."

Yost said the writers haven't decided yet if Errol was killed. If the actor is available and the story calls for it, they may use him again.

MCM, you and I usually agree on Winona, and I hate that the writers broke them up, but I can understand the three-line note. It was probably something like "I love you, but I can't live like this. Nothing is ever going to change. Don't try to find me." What else is there to say? If she started writing everything she might never stop and then she'd still be there when he finally got home. LOL. She isn't giving him an option...do this and I'll stay...she's already made her decision. I can respect her for that, and for taking herself and her baby out of a situation she couldn't tolerate, no matter how much she loves him.

That said, I haven't given up on them. Not by a long shot.

[ripetebook]

I loved season 2 as much for Mags and Loretta....and Raylan's ties to Harlan and the Bennetts. Loved that he kept his word to Loretta most. It cost him dearly...but knowing the final outcome...I still think Raylan would have rescued Loretta...saving her soul mattered to our flawed hero. Maybe that soul he saved made a small dent in his own soul. As to season 3...found it dark...fascinating but too dark. Quarles was just too twisted...Duffy was fun but Quarles and what he did on the side was just too dark. And in the dark vein...Ava went dark....but it seemed a natural move on her part. She has some real anger...aimed more at Raylan....Boyd is just what she really always wanted...remember she killed Bowman before we met her. Now for me season 4 is just the best. Timothy just is so into his role of Raylan...he is Raylan....so natural and at ease...the story is great...guests super...and that includes Roz...what maybe Loretta could have turned into...but for Mags and Raylan. Coltin another well written part...a man who had flaws but the flaws have won and he is more and more lost. He is a loaded gun...Duffy has been quiet so far...and I do mean so far!!! Like I said season 4...best season so far. And no matter what....Two and Half Men is too much punishment.................

[christina]

I am starting to like season 4. But will it surpass season 2? I doubt it.

[weegieburd]

I have to say I think it does, I think every episode has been really good and a few have been great.

[ripetebook]

TV guide must agree...we are considered the best drama and that got us that incredible cover shot of Timothy. Now if only....Emmy time we get treated right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dolphin]

Feb 21, 2013 15:43:54 GMT -6 ripetebook said:

TV guide must agree...we are considered the best drama and that got us that incredible cover shot of Timothy. Now if only....Emmy time we get treated right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Imo, we need 2 awesome submission eps for TO and Walton. And as of 2/22/13, I haven't seen them. Both TO and Walton had some good scenes, but submission eps shouldn't be a split episode like we had this week. Nope. We need a Raylan-centric episode (like 'Reckoning' from Season 2 ... awesome episode) and one for Boyd. Maybe Arlo will die and give us one for TO.

We'd better get an Emmy nod this year. Word on the street is Kyle Chandler was signed to star in Showtime's 'The Vatican.' TO's about to get some more worthy competition. I'd love to see both Kyle and TO nominated.

[ripetebook]

I thought the whole "Kin" episode was great TO and Walton episode. Emmy worthy.