Great Winona Article

[wkw99]

kalidiscope on the FX thread posted this link. Great article with the best (and funniest) description ever of Gary.

www.pajiba.com/tv_reviews/the-woman-waiting-on-the-stagecoach-reexamining-justifieds-winona-hawkins.php



And hey...I started a thread. But I still can't post an avatar.

[anyways]

Fantastic article, and the comments are also very interesting.
(btw, to post an avatar you have to link to a picture that's online somewhere. Do you have a Flickr or Photobucket account? Then you can upload your own picture and link it to here)

[wkw99]

Old interview with NZ, but good.

actfourscreenplays.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/natalie-zea-of-justified-on-fx-interviewed-about-the-show-the-cast-and-her-career-video/

[clovergirl]

What do you know about “Winona” that we don’t yet [know] without giving away any major plot points?

Natalie Zea: That’s a good one. She’s fiercely, okay, I don’t want to say that, that’s giving too much away. I don’t know if this is an evident yet, but she will eat you alive if you get in her territory and if you step on her turf without having been invited she will eat you up and spit you out.

I found this part interesting. In the first part of her answer I was wondering what she was about to say. Sounded like "fiercely protective" by what she said next. I think we've seen a bit of that protectiveness in her running to Art for help for Raylan in the finale. I would like to see more of her defending and protecting her man. I think her character seems more human and likable when we are allowed to see that side of her.
Something changed right near the end of last season in the way her character was written. Whether it was a natural evolution of her character in the story or reaction to all the hate being written about her, we'll never know. All I know is that for the first time since the show started I began to feel for her. I'm not saying that I think she should be all sweet and wonderful all the time. I understand the kind of woman she is and perhaps some of what makes her that way. I'm just saying that I need to see this softer side of her occasionally to be able to like her at all. I wouldn't ever expect Raylan to be married to a stereotypical woman. He's not your ordinary character, lol.
Next season will be so funny if after my first season of hating her and my second season of warming to her SLIGHTLY, they make their relationship fall apart and I end up back where I started!

PS- Love the line in there about Timothy being nicer than all the people in Hollywood that she's worked with. Very nice.

[wkw99]

I think I started to like her in S1 when it became pretty clear that she and Boyd were the only two people who got to call Raylan out and actually get to him. He shrugs Art's advice off, for the most part throughout S1. Ava doesn't get to him, because he thinks he's smarter than she is. He doesn't give a shit what Arlo thinks. The only other character who comes close is Helen. It's quickly obvious that Raylan doesn't just love Winona, he respects her. That got me interested in her. I wanted to know why.

In S2, we got to see this really put-together woman come apart at the seams and I thought NZ did an excellent job showing that. (So I don't get all the hate on her, or calling her a bad actress.) She also said in an interview (not sure it was that one) that Winona has a lot of typically 'male' reactions to things and parts of her personality. And I think it's clear in some of their scenes together that while she is very feminine and all, she's also the more pragmatic and practical of the two of them where their relationship is concerned. Raylan is ready to jump in with both feet from the get-go and she's the one saying "Wait, can we do this? Can we change? Can 'I' change?" I really like that about her.

There's a video interview on E!online (I'll try to post a link) where they ask if Raylan and Winona will continue to be together or something like that, and she says they'll always be in each other's lives and then she laughs and says if they aren't she won't have a job. LOL. If this second chance blows up in their faces, it isn't going to be just her fault. She may be the one making the choice to get out...mostly because I don't think Raylan is capable of making that choice, and she knows it. But, I won't hate her. I will feel for both of them, because I think they are truly the love of each other's lives and if they can't make it work it will be devastating for them both. She'll just be better at pushing it all under the rug and getting on with things. Winona is a survivor.

Here's that link. There's a video with TO, and below it, one with NZ.

www.eonline.com/uberblog/b227477_justified_set_secrets_who_goes_little.html

[jess1z1]

I've hesitated to say this, but I can identify with her a lot, lol. And I SWEAR I've never had any enemies. Probably 'cause I'm not sleeping in Raylan Givens (I'd welcome the enemies if that was the case, to be honest, lol).

I'm not the type of person who could live with my significant other doing a job so dangerous. Especially not if he seems to have a death wish. I couldn't be an army wife. I don't think I could even handle my brother doing something dangerous day in and day out. So I get Winona there. I can identify with her trying to be pragmatic in relationships (but often failing since it's hard to be pragmatic when you're in love). I've been in love with the same guy for a very long time, but I've had to be cold because I've decided to put my career and my professional future first among other things and I know how hard it is to try to use your head in order to avoid getting hurt and failing. I feel that's what Winona tried to do when she left Raylan. She was thinking with her head. And when he came back to KY, she stopped using her head... clearly, lol. I'm not exactly sweet to my guy. I tend to be the colder one in the relationship. Which doesn't mean I'm not affectionate, I'm just not a mushy person, the only petname I use is "babe" and I don't say "I love you" in front of our acquaintances, because that, to me, is very intimate. It's an interesting contrast, because he has a thousand petnames for me, likes holding me and kissing me all the time, is romantic and I like it. He's from a slightly more humble background than me. Sometimes I feel I ask too much from him, but it has always been with the best intentions and I've felt guilty for leeting him do things for me, but I trust him more than anyone. And I love that for once a female lead is not the perfect loveable woman, but someone I can relate to more, lol. She's sarcastic, even bitchy and she's the hero's true love, not just any supporting character who's allowed to be bitchy because they're not that important to the main character. She's not exactly endearing, but she does sincerely love Raylan and her selfishness has to do with not wanting him to get killed, which I think is very understandable. I love that they went that way. And if Natalie did have a lot to do with Winona's development, well, then I guess I like Natalie too.

I've been watching Dirty Sexy Money; I know it's been cancelled, but it was funny and Natalie was amazing. I don't think she's a bad actress. She's probably not gonna win awards for Justified, but she does just what she's supposed to.

I know there must be a lot of viewers who relate more to Ava, but I can't. At all. And while I enjoy her character, she seems a bit more cliché to me.

[mondayschild]

Jess, I can relate to much of what you said, not only about the show but about your personal relationship. Not being the most affectionate member of the couple, for me, came from being treated terribly twice before I met my husband. I always had the feeling that I would be left again.He always seemed to be more into me than I was to him, although I loved him and he was so good to me. When push came to shove, I was always there to support him, and he was a good husband.. Winona moves the story along. She helps to explain why Raylan is the way he is. I accept the way she is, even if I don't think she is really the woman that Raylan needs. He loves her, and whatever the writers come up with, I will accept. He seems to feel that they are meant for each other in spite of all that has gone down. When you love somebody, you never give up. I do think, however that something will happen that will separate them again and broken hearts are painful. There will be a lot of misery and angst.

[wkw99]

mondayschild. I will disagree, in a very friendly and respectful way, with Winona not being the woman Raylan needs. I think she's exactly what he needs. She's the voice of reason. Raylan isn't just any lawman. Comparing him to LEOs we know in real life always manages to sweep his lone-gunman single-mindedness under the rug. He needs someone (besides his boss, since ---no surprise---cough*Arlo* cough---he has a problem with authority) telling him to look at what he's doing and consider other people who care about him. I read over and over that Winona doesn't support Raylan in his job but I truly think she could accept Raylan's job and be there for him 100% if he did his job the way Art, Tim, or Rachel do. But he doesn't, and knowing that makes her crazy.

So for me...Winona is very much what Raylan needs, but I'm not so sure he's what SHE needs. Of course, the show is about Raylan, so if/when she realizes this (again) and leaves him, it will be all her fault. Sigh.

[mondayschild]

Good to hear from you wkw, as always. My question to you would be, if Raylan was always the straight arrow, and he and Winona were totally blissful, would this show be as compelling as it is? Raylan and Winona and Art and everybody else are going to continue to go around and around with each other.If this show ended (Please, God, no!) next season, I doubt we will have a pat happy ending. That would not be the show we love. I mean, what would we talk about?

[wkw99]

Oh no, I'm not arguing in favor of a happy ending...that doesn't seem likely. All I'm saying is that I think Winona IS what he needs, but it still may not work, no matter how much both of them want it to.

Of course, there is a theory in television that happy couples are boring. I don't think that's true...and I don't think these two would ever be 'boring' LOL. They are bound to have conflict, even if they are together. Neither one of them is the 'blissful' type.

Whatever happens, I do think that they will always be in each other's lives (obviously, if the pregnancy comes to it's logical conclusion). And I think they will always harbor feelings for each other, perhaps to the detriment of forming other healthy relationships. They seem to be a 'cant-live-with-or-without-each-other pairing. Hopefully, we'll have many seasons to see it all play out.

[mondayschild]

The thing I'm looking for, and I've stated it before, is a bit of tenderness on Winona's part. Raylan is very loving toward her, most of the time. She tends to be snarky and brusque. In season 3, I would like to see her be so glad that he is alive, first and foremost. He's certainly not the most perfect candidate for a husband, given his penchant for foolhardiness, but I she truly loves him, I hope his safety is her first concern. Wouldn't it be wonderful if love were easy?

[wkw99]

I read an interview with NZ where she said that the writers don't write Winona as a *typical* woman, in that a lot of her reactions to things are more unemotional. I think that's part of the problem some have with her that I don't, since I tend to be that way. I'm not one to give someone a lot of back-patting and empathy. If there's a problem, I'm more likely to say "What are we going to do about this?" than sympathize.

This is likely irrelevant, but with the kids I teach, I've discovered that if they do a face-smack on the playground, unless they are truly hurt badly, they usually look around before they choose to either get up or burst into tears. If the adults watching react with immediate "Oh, Honey that was an awful fall, are you okay?" here come the tears....but if I say "Wow, did you hurt the blacktop?" They laugh it off, and they're fine. Of course I check them out and help if they're hurt...but sometimes tenderness isn't what's needed.

That said, I agree that Winona could give Raylan a bit more in the tenderness department. I think she holds things very close and for reasons we aren't privy too, protects herself in this relationship. I wish we knew a bit more about what their relationship was like when they were married. She seems to be pretty anxious that he's going to be angry about things, and that's why I think she acts flippant or brusque, like it doesn't matter to her.

I love the scene between them in The Life Inside where it's so obvious that they are both trying to have this conversation that is very different for them. When she asks about his day he tells her she doesn't want to know, but she says she's asking because she does want to know; and so he tells her about the pregnant fugitive and all that happened. They're both so vulnerable in those moments, and it's when I really became invested in their relationship and started rooting for them.

[clovergirl]

Just to interject one quick thought I have on their relationship. I like that they do show them more as equals than the stereotypical TV couple. As she says in that one interview that sometimes means her actions or words are more masculine than feminine. She does have that hard edge to her and I like it. I get that it's her best defense. I like the snarkiness. Smartass is my middle name. lol. It's just that I like her best when they give us some tender scenes to balance that out.
As for them staying together, we all know that's not happening. He'll never be able to sustain any temporary change in his style and she'll never be able to survive the worry of his dangerous job.
After all, like wkw was saying, it's not even his job that's the problem, it's the way he does it.
Remember that Boyd line from the start of the season about Raylan "drawing trouble"? It's the truth and I think wherever he goes or whatever he does he'll always be the one running into the burning building, as they say. It's who he is.

My hope is that they'll reach that conclusion fairly quickly next season. I doubt it will get ugly or nasty. I think they'll both just realize that neither of them is happy and as much as they love each other, it just doesn't work. It'll just be sad.

[wkw99]

I don't know. I don't think they would break up while she's still pregnant, so with the pace of this show a quick resolution isn't likely. Anyway, I'm hoping for more of a long, drawn out mess with agonizing relapses where they can't stay away/keep their hands off each other, spanning several seasons (and resulting in the second of the two kids Raylan has in the books ). Sorry. I know I'm a glutton for punishment.

[clovergirl]

You're probably right about how it will play out. That was just my wishful thinking for a less painful conclusion.

[wkw99]

LOL...this is Raylan we're talking about. Pain and misery are part of the job description.

[mondayschild]

I, too, love that scene from The life inside. (Silly me. I thought it was a breakthrough.) I really, really, really would like to know about Winona's background. The breakup, which I agree will happen, will be sad as you said, and I agree that they will probably relapse. Let's see how it plays out. The writers won't disappoint us.

[wkw99]

I think it was a breakthrough. Just not enough of one.